downhill punchbowls

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I had another wonderful weekend at Mountain Lake. The punchbowl there is blind. Part the my affection for the 2nd shot on 8 at Pac Dunes and 1 at Barona Creek is watching the ball feed. Can anyone think of a downhill punchbowl where one can watch the beauty of the ball feeding to different parts of the green?

[Kyle Harris]

The 8th at Lulu (Ross) in Philadelphia.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Kyle, I was just getting ready to post that one!

Absolutely one of my favorite holes in the Sport, on a most unheralded course. I love that place. I've typed it here before, many  years ago in what Tom Huckaby calls the, "bad days" of GCA, but LuLu was the first place I ever met one of my favorite GCA people, one Tom Paul. Seems the good old days were good for something.

When we got to the 8th, Tom said to us, Oh, I think your going to like this hole..... And do you wanna know what? I did.

[wsmorrison]

The 5th at St. Louis CC is a 508 yard par 5 with a punchbowl green that is completely hidden from view from typical approach distances, that is unless you foozle your way down the fairway.  There was a recently restored Principal's Nose bunker complex140 yards short of the green.  There is a large bunker fronting the left portion of the green with an opening to the right.

The hole requires a 10' flag pin to have any idea where it is located.  I think it is an awkward hole design that doesn't work for me.  

The blind approach



Looking back from above the green

[JESII]

Tommy,

We only met briefly, at Hidden Creek a couple of years ago, so forgive me if I mis-remember...but are you like 9 feet tall? Kyle, I've met you a few times and I know you're not 9 feet tall. So how in the hell can either of you "...watch the beauty of the ball feeding to different parts of the green"?

Oh, but it is a really cool hole on a pretty cool course...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Sully,
Only when my neck comes out of my shell.  

While I was going to remind Kyle that you couldn't see the downhill/ball running around the green like a turtle in heat (in soft conditions) feature. Yes, one would have to have a rather long neck. (For those of you paying attention, the green is for the most part, completely blind; albeit it's one of my favorite downhill blind shots.)

[Bill_McBride]

You can't see all of the surface, but the downhill #6 at the Creek Club on Long Island has a pretty spectacular punchbowl green!

Not to mention an incredible view as you crest the hill from the fifth green en route to the sixth tee.  

[Kyle Harris]

JES II,

Florida heat can do wonders, as well as playing The Claw at USF. Anyway, I can't say that I remember the hole being blind, nor do I remember it being visible either. Just remember it being really friggen cool, and really friggen fun. It is downhill, though - give me that

Tommy, the tales of your legendary up and down on the 4th at Lulu are still spoken in grill rooms across the Delaware Valley.

Also, "The good old days weren't always good, and tomorrow's not as bad as it seems..."

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Kyle, No, I always look forward to tomorrow, but I do so respecting what the past has meant to me. A big, H-U-G-E difference.

4th at Lu Lu? Please remind me?!?!? (still to this day, one of my favorite shots of all-time. I love my Callaway Hickory Stick!

[Adam_Messix]

Brian Silva created a downhill punchbowl when he redesigned the Greenville Country Club Riverside Course.  It's a cool hole where you can land it 30-50 yards shorts of the green and watch it trickle onto the green and (hopefully) to the hole.  

[Bill Brightly]

The 5th at St. Louis CC is a 508 yard par 5 with a punchbowl green that is completely hidden from view from typical approach distances, that is unless you foozle your way down the fairway.  There was a recently restored Principal's Nose bunker complex140 yards short of the green.  There is a large bunker fronting the left portion of the green with an opening to the right.

The hole requires a 10' flag pin to have any idea where it is located.  I think it is an awkward hole design that doesn't work for me.  

Gee Wayne, here we have a MacRaynor hole that fits prefectly with the land...is not forced...and you came up with a reason to diss it anyway!

It may not work for you, but I bet it would be a blast for you to play again and again!

And what the hell does "foozle" mean?

[JESII]

More important than dissin Wayne's dissing of the MacRaynor family is his obvious objection to a blind green...I am shocked...

#13 at Royal County Down is one of my favorite holes in the world and the flag would need to be about 30 feet tall to see it...

[wsmorrison]

I don't mind blind greens, in fact I can think of a lot of excellent ones.  I don't like punchbowl greens (too little approach shot dictation--you can come at it from any direction) and I think a blind punchbowl green is a particularly bad design combination.

Foozle is a term that PG Wodehouse used in his excellent series of golf stories in The Golf Omnibus for a topped or miss-hit shot.  Bill, I highly recommend reading these Wodehouse stories as they are funny and extremely well written.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tiger,

# 1 on the 4th nine at Montclair and # 6 at The Creek are both downhill Punchbowl greens.

Montclair's is on a par 5 while The Creek's is on a par 4.

Both are unique and fun holes to play.

Drainage is critical as is plenty of sunlight

[wsmorrison]

Pat,

Is this really a punchbowl green?  I think the 6th at Creek Club is one of the great par 4s in American golf, but I don't think the green acts like a punchbowl even though it has berms around most of the green.

[Kalen Braley]

I absolutly loved the punchbowl 17th at Redlands Mesa.  Visually stunning, and with the length a very intimidating tee shot.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Here is the aforementioned 8th at LuLu:

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

I love that Mr Creek, Mike Sweeney, did not think of the Creek when we talked about this. It must have been my square headed driver that created confusion for him.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Steve Shaffer,

Question # 1

What idiot planted those trees inside the bowl ?

Question # 2

Why haven't they been removed ?

Wayne,

While # 6 is named Soundview, for its breathtaking view of the Sound and beyond, the green is clearly a punchbowl green.

It may not be configured like the punchbowl green # 16 at NGLA but it's a punchbowl in look and function.  # 16 at NGLA is maintained differently than # 6 at TC.  If the surrounding berms were cut to fairway height I don't think you'd question the categorization.

What I think distinguishes it from others is the length and difficulty of the approach shot into the green.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Pat

re: LuLu

#1 I don't know

#2 Ron Forse redid the course a few years ago and the tree remains. Must be some tree huggers at the club.

[Mike_Cirba]

I saw Tommy hit make the most phenomenal par I've ever seen from the lower quarry wall on the 4th hole at Lulu.   It included a near vertical approach second shot that soared 100 feet into the air before landing on the front of the green (pin in the back), followed by a 50 foot par putt.

If I had been playing him at matchplay I would have hurled myself off the quarry cliff to my death in response.

[Kevin Pallier]

My memory could be fading - but is the 8th at Royal Dornoch a punchbowl ?

[D_Malley]

3rd hole at Pocono Manor east, Par 3 punchbowl, 190 yards

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

One of the best I have played is number 4 at Fishers Island..wonderful hole with the ocean on the right side of the hole...  a true blind second shot into the punchbowl green.
What makes it even better, is the following Biaritz par 3.
A marvelous golf course.

[corey miller]

#8 at LU Lu appears to have one of the most unfortunate tree plantings in golfdom.  It amazes me that a club can have a well received restoration (at least from the outside) and yet leave something like this.  

This decision comes very close to hitting the "walk-away" point for a restoration guy IMO.