Washington DC and surrounding areas

[Kalen Braley]

Taking the drive down to Royal New Kent seems doable as well.

I must admit, I'm a big fan of quirk on the course, and from the pics of the stuff he's done, it looks like a blast. How would this courses rate on the meter in terms of "You-gotta-check-this-course-out" of works by Stranz?

[Jesse Jones]

Kalen,

RNK is your best bet..
Depending on your tee time...
You are dealing with way too much traffic to get to Bulle Rock and Beechtree.

[JWL]

Kalen

There is a new Nicklaus course in Loudon County Va, about 20 minutes from Dulles.
It has not opened yet, but is in perfect condition.
It is called Creighton Farms.
You will have to talk real sweet to them to see the course, but you might...and I only say might....enjoy the course.

[Andy Hughes]

Kalen, if you're willing to drive 2 hours, then RNK is a no-brainer and much more fun than PB Dye.  It is very much worth seeing.

On the Strantz-O-Meter, RNK is nearer the top, above Stonehouse (which is down the road from RNK btw), True Blue and Caledonia, and ever so slightly below Tobacco Road (or not, depends on the day). Just one man's opinion, and I haven't seen Bulls Bay, or his redo at MPCC or Tot Hill. Others might disagree wildly.

[Rob_Waldron]

Kalen

If you have the entire day to play and are willing to drive about an 1 1/2 hours try working in two of these courses down I95: Royal New Kent & Stonehouse by the late great Mike Stranz in the Williamsaburg area and Mattaponi Springs which is Bob Lohman's lone East Coast design. Of course you could go to the recently renovated (read softened edges) River Course at Kingsmill by Pete Dye. It is a very interesting and fun course. He makes some great use of elevation changes.

BTW PB Dye is Pete's son and for some reason it appears that in this case the apple has fallen and rolled very far from the tree. PB Dye GC features 13 blind tee shots and numerous blind approach shots...a real treat!

If you have never experienced architorture overpay to play the Norman Course at Lansdowne.

 

[Kalen Braley]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the feedback, I really appreciate it.  Sounds like its worth it to make the trip to see RNK.  If anyone in there area would like to play, I'd certainly love to meet up.

Jesse,

I checked into Beechtree and Bull Rock and they will both be closed by then.  

As for driving two hours, that doesn't bother me as I have most of Saturday to work with.  My work engagement isn't until 6 so that should be enough time.

Sunday, I'd have to work in something close due my flight or perhaps I'll be too hungover and just go for a walk on the National Mall.    

[Eric Olsen]

If you have to be back in DC by 6 pm, the only warning I would have is to allow plenty of time to return to Landsdowne from RNK, as there is inevitably bad traffic in Northern Virgnia.  RNK is a tremendous experience, but you should also allow for a 5 hour round, as it can easily take that long, depending on how many people are playing that day.  

Cannon Ridge is Fredericksberg is a fun track, a Deane Beman layout.  Also Augustine in Stafford, VA, is great and easily walkable course designed by Rick Jacobson. Both of those are much closer drive if time becomes an issue.

[Jimmy Chandler]

Kalen --

I have a few thoughts:

1. Royal New Kent will be closer to a three hour drive (assuming no traffic problems, which is not a safe assumption to make) from Landsdowne.  

2. A course not yet mentioned on this thread is Shenandoah Valley Golf Club in Front Royal.  Walkable, cheaper than any other course mentioned in this thread ($15 to walk in December), classic, rolling hill, walkable layout. 27 holes. the older 18 has smallish greens, the newer 9 has larger ones.  Almost no forced carries or water hazards, some blind shots, usually kept in nice condition.  Some very interesting holes and I think it's the best value in the area.  http://www.svgcgolf.com/golf.html

3. Of the CCFAD courses in the area, I think Laurel Hill and Westfields are the best.  Laurel Hill is actually a muni trying to be a CCFAD; I personally think it has several outstanding holes and no bad ones.  

4. Raspberry Falls has some nice holes, and it is close to where you're staying, but it's a couple of notches below Laurel Hill and Westfields.  Also good in the Frederick, MD area are Whiskey Creek and Musket Ridge.  Virginia National is the kind of course some people hate, but it is a pretty unique layout; but I'd call first as they may be closed for the season.

5. I second the rec for Twin Lakes -- it's the muni where I keep my handicap.  Two 18-hole layouts: the newer Oaks is more challenging and interesting, and plays a little tighter; the Lakes is more open but the greens are far less interesting.  Conditioning can be an issue, but the price is right and they always allow walking (most CCFADs in the DC area don't allow walking on a weekend morning, though they might in December).

[Kalen Braley]

Thanks all concerning the info regarding Royal New Kent.

Google Maps puts the drive at 150 miles on the nose.  I understand there is traffic in the area, but is this also the case at 7 AM on a Saturday morning?  On a weekday I would guess this would be a nightmare, but on a Saturday morning, won't most people still be paying a visit to Mr. Sandman?  Even in the bay area which has some of the worst traffic in the nation, 7 AM on a saturday usuallly means at least speed limit driving.  Are the freeways in the area only two lanes wide in each direction?  Just wanting to get clarification because at an average land speed of 70 MPH I could get there in just over two hours.  

Coming back would likely take longer, so I guess it'd be safe to add on an extra half hour.

[Eric Olsen]

With respect to PB Dye, I really enjoy the course, but the last time we played it about a month or so ago it was in terrible shape, with  many fairways having very little turf, so I would suggest that you save that for another trip.  Love Musket Ridge, but it is a bit of a drive from where you will be.  I would also second the Virginia National recommendation.  Beautiful location and layout.   I would do Westfields before Raspberry Falls in a minute.  

[Eric Olsen]

Your drive time down to RNK won't be a problem.  Coming back can be stop and start for miles and could easily be 3 hours.

[rboyce]

There's another Rick Jacobsen designed course that is much closer to Dulles and also has a walk in the park setting. It's Bull Run GC in Haymarket, VA. It might be a 30 minute drive from Landsdowne.

The course got chewed up a bit the last few years, but seems to be recovering nicely. It's golf only and one of the more enjoyable rounds in the area imho.

[Chip Gaskins]

Driving south on I95 is a royal pain.  Save yourself the hassle.

Raspberry is a decent track.  But Whiskey Creek is by far the best public track in the metro DC area.

Chip

[Paul Stephenson]

When I was in DC last I played Whiskey Creek and PB Dye and enjoyed them.

The other course that I played that hasn't been mentioned was Stonewall at Lake Manassas.  It had some nice holes and some nice views of the RTJ Course.

[Kalen Braley]

Mike and Rob,

As the weather did me in on this trip, I took a walk this morning around most of the Norman course including all of the back 9.  In some spots I could only laugh at the preposterous nature of the shots required, but it does look like a tough mother.  And playing from the back tees with some of those required carries, you better be Tiger....

I liked how many of the greens were elevated with shaved down chipping areas usually on one side. And the recovery shots looked absolutly brutal with nasty bunkers and hazards awaiting nothing but precise approach and chip shots around those greens.  It is a nice spot to go for a walk though.  

[Tommy Williamsen]

Kalen, the Norman is indeed tough but it was not enjoyable at all and not because it was tough.  In fact I thought it was boring.I hit the same clubs to the greens much of the times.  
I bet it was a nice walk though.  It is in a pretty place.

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen, the Norman is indeed tough but it was not enjoyable at all and not because it was tough.  In fact I thought it was boring.I hit the same clubs to the greens much of the times.  
I bet it was a nice walk though.  It is in a pretty place.

Tommy,

The fairways are pretty flatish and it seems like there is a hazard on the right side of every hole.  It looks like most of the difficulty is getting on the green itself, then once, your on they looked flattish for the most part.

Have you played the RTJ2 course.  If the snow melts, they may be able to get me out tommorow, but am wondering if its worth the play or not.

Kalen

[Mike_Cirba]

Kalen,

It's worth playing, particularly the back nine (if they haven't changed it too much in the last couple of years), and is infinitely better than the Norman course.

Good luck!

[Rob_Waldron]

It looks like I made the right decision by staying in St. Augustine for the weekend!

My biggest problem with the Norman Course is the lack of green depth for the approach shots. All of the greens sit at severe angles and unless you hit mile high approach shots that land like butterflies with sore feet (Gee, who does that sound like?) you cannot hold the greens and are forced to play from yet another run off area.

I played the RTJ Course two months ago and the green complexes were very challenging and much more playable than anything on the Norman Course.

[Kalen Braley]

It looks like I made the right decision by staying in St. Augustine for the weekend!

My biggest problem with the Norman Course is the lack of green depth for the approach shots. All of the greens sit at severe angles and unless you hit mile high approach shots that land like butterflies with sore feet (Gee, who does that sound like?) you cannot hold the greens and are forced to play from yet another run off area.

I played the RTJ Course two months ago and the green complexes were very challenging and much more playable than anything on the Norman Course.

Rob,

I think you really described it very nicely from taking a look at them.  The greens are smallish targets, with only tiny areas between greenside bunkers to try to run the ball on the green from.

And if you missed the green in one of these chipping areas, you were forced to chip back to a small surface that usually had a hazard on the other side of it...tough stuff indeed.  And to boot most of the trouble on the course is on the right side making it even tougher on the average right handed golfer who slices.

[Mike_Cirba]

Rob,

Has it ever happened that we both agreed not only on one, but on two courses, both at the same resort no less?  

I must be slipping.