[Daryl David]

I am going to steal something from the Castle Stuart videos that I think have been discussed here before.  The part of golf that I get the most pleasure from is the third shot on a par four.  The challenge of trying to get up and down when faced with interesting greens gets my juices flowing.  There are so many options available at that point.  So many more decisions than full shots from the fairway.  

I guess I am lucky I feel this way since I miss so many greens!

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,
The approach one takes to the game is not really that far afield of JK's question.

For every player who likes wide fairways there is one who likes them narrow. For every player who likes holes that bend R to L, there's one who likes them L to R, and there's one who likes them L and R.
   
So, I think the real key to identifying that which is 'fun to play' can only be made individually, and only happens when the choice of course matches what you are ready to invest on that day, i.e., your approach to the game.

By the way, this doesn't mean that you only play what you know. Finding new places is, in itself, rewarding and might be just the proper investment for that day. It does mean that you know yourself, and how to tailor your choices accordingly.

Do that and most everything can be 'fun to play', and if you walk off something less than happy you only have yourself to blame, which is how it should be.

 

[Tom Huckaby]

Jim:

Gotcha.  I just do continue to think that JK intended this to be more about what golf courses give in the way of fun than how golfers approach the game... even though the latter is more interesting and good lord does matter for sure!

Either way it's good by me.  But I guess then I needn't have apologized.

 

[Ryan Farrow]

Disagree with your last sentence...firmness is required for variety to exist, otherwise it's throwing darts...even if you miss the board, the dart just sticks in the wall...



Tom's post makes me amend the thought that it would never depend on architecture because he is right, there does need to be movement for the firmness to really be fun...

You are talking about mud.  A ball can release and the ground not be considered firm or fast.

I think Doak makes a great point about movement of the ball which explains why I think curving a ball around a tree is fun.

I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks that is fun. Definitely one of my favorite shots to try and pull off.

Rustic Canyon is fun, even if a round takes 6 hours.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,

"I..... think that JK intended this to be more about what golf courses give in the way of fun....."

My list would be too long. I don't want to invest that much time.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Tom,

"I..... think that JK intended this to be more about what golf courses give in the way of fun....."

My list would be too long. I don't want to invest that much time.  

Fully understood, Jim - and I feel the same.  That's why my first answer was short and pithy and very general.

TH

[Tom_Doak]

I can't believe nobody has disagreed with my definition.  I thought it was a tough question; I'm surprised that I got it on the first try. But I am having a very good day today.

[Brent Hutto]

I can't believe nobody has disagreed with my definition.  I thought it was a tough question; I'm surprised that I got it on the first try. But I am having a very good day today.

So do you agree with including "...and avoiding Point C..." in the fun defintion?

Mr. Kavenaugh thinks the modern idea of fun considers having to account for not-C in your planning for A-by-way-of-B as a spoiler. In that case I like the old kind of fun better, I suppose.

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't believe nobody has disagreed with my definition.  I thought it was a tough question; I'm surprised that I got it on the first try. But I am having a very good day today.

Doak,

It was beautiful in its simplicity.  I thought of you today when my 12 year old asked me if he could someday get in MIT.  I told him that sadly I do not believe his mom and I gave him the genetic make up for such an daunting task and he should relax and enjoy his youth.  When that made him kinda sad I explained that it is like being a 7 footer...some people just have it born in them.  You should thank your parents.

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't believe nobody has disagreed with my definition.  I thought it was a tough question; I'm surprised that I got it on the first try. But I am having a very good day today.

So do you agree with including "...and avoiding Point C..." in the fun defintion?

Mr. Kavenaugh thinks the modern idea of fun considers having to account for not-C in your planning for A-by-way-of-B as a spoiler. In that case I like the old kind of fun better, I suppose.

Brent,

If avoiding things was considered fun you would still see dodge ball played on todays playgrounds.  I do not believe the modern golfer is strong enough mentally to enjoy the task of avoidance and return for future play.  It is not a word based in success but survival.  Can you think of a better word?

[Pat Brockwell]

What is fun to play? IT is fun to play.  Helps to bring some fun with you.  I like to discover things, shots, strategies, abilities, weaknesses and commonalities with my playing partners.  The real trick is having fun every time. (I've said this before and I'll keep saying it, I am a recreational professional)

[Dan Kelly]

I can't believe nobody has disagreed with my definition.

Well, I attempted to!

Note the subtle amendment to your formula.

[Philippe Binette]

North Berwick + West Links = FUN GOLF

[Jim Sweeney]

Fun is...

Walking purposefully with you head up, eyes forward, bag on your back....

Feeling a true swing- that one out of a thousand strokes that has the feeling of "effortless power..."

A shot you don't get to try very often, and executing it to perfection...

Knowing the put is going in before you take your stance...

The risky but most rewarding route...

Rounding a dogleg of cresting a hill, revealing an unexpected and beautiful vista...

A shot out of an 18 foot deep bunker...

A blind shot...the first time...

Playing a course you have not played by a favorite ODG...or YLG

Unpredictability...

Golf.

[Jeff_Brauer]

Great topic, JK.   A theory topic that firmly puts you in the theory camp!

I will go back to what I said another thread (I will remember which one a few coffees from now.....) that most golfers play for camraderie rather than competition or even score.  Given that, I would say that overall, anything we can design in to foster comraderie would make a golf course inherently more fun than a similar course.

I postulated that comraderie is fostered by shared experiences.  To that end, I think the crazy shots, where getting from point A to B does involve routing through point C (probably the Atlanta airport, since everything else routes through there these days).  Other factors could be those crazy edge bunkers or really deep ones, water carries, rolling putts, holes on the edge of par, etc.  Basically the criteria would be to give golfers something to talk about at the bar and at home afterwards.

Does the average golfer go home and describe his round to the wife like a Tour Pro - "On 3, I hit driver, 8 iron, 2 putts...."  I think they talk about the great shots or big disasters.

BTW, based strictly on watching golfers, I would have to say the $1-$1-$1 bet seems to be the most fun part of golf.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

I am a bit perplexed by this post.  Barney brings up something of interest to me, and I thought it would be of interest to GCAer's.  T. Doak presents in simple language, what is fun golf and few respond or even read this.
After 40 years of playing, getting to point B, by strucking the ball or putt at Point A clearly defines fun for me.  Throw in avoiding Point C can add enjoyment as well.  This is the essence of the sport, accuracy, carry and in some cases distance (William Flynn), but not always going directly at the target.
Has everyone written this off and just thinks about carrying bunkers or installing a new shaft to get 15 more yards?
7 years ago I thought I was in the majority here about my philosophy of golf.  Am I now in the minority of GCA followers?

[George Pazin]

You're not in the minority, Lynn. Tom just got the answer too right too early in the thread. The rest of us have tried to restate it, but his simple, concise answer rings true for most everyone (sorry, Tony Pioppi, I'm a Doak BB).

Take heart, I'd guess RC fits his simple definition to a T, you can be damn proud of Geoff (not that you need my approval, I'm sure you already were). Hope I get to play it one of these days.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Lynn,
JK's thread is only two days old, and a Friday and Saturday to boot, which aren't usually the busiest days, I think.
But, has it really been that neglected? There have been 650 views and 43 replies from 21 different people.

Answers have been:
know the course- firm conds.- aiming at A to hit B- width- physical and mental challenges- scenic beauty- curving a ball around a tree- bail out areas- creative greens- chip & pitch situations- wind- bunker locations that swallow balls- soft ground-  unusual shots- not losing balls- execution- player's approach to the game- 'links' golf- walking- taking risk- deep bunkers- blind holes- quirk- aiming at A to hit B while avoiding C, and probably some I missed.

All of which shows, at least to me, that defining 'What is fun to play' is personal and broad based.  

[Jim_Kennedy]

Interesting terrain- having it or making it, but using it correctly.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

George and Jim, thanks, good thoughts, and I guess you are right.  Fun was nailed early in the discussion and thus a lot of other comments are just nice additions.

[Jeff Shelman]

Part of what is fun to me is variety. I like a short par 4 or two on a course where you can hit driver, but don't have to. I like some difficult greens. I like variety of lengths on holes.

I don't like a steady diet of 420-450 par 4s. I don't like getting constantly beat up, but I do like challenge.

Just one guy's take.

[J_ Crisham]

Fun can be described as simply a day at Lahinch with an experienced caddie. Need I say more- if you've been you understand.

[Bart Bradley]

Fun can be described as simply a day at Lahinch with an experienced caddie. Need I say more- if you've been you understand.

with my son.... AMEN!!!!

[Norbert P]

For me, the greatest fun is to be rewarded for starting a shot at Point A in order to get it to wind up at Point B -- because then you're using your brain and your physical skills.

It holds equally true for driving, approaching, short game and putting.

I disagree.  I think bongos are fun to play.

[J_ Crisham]

Slag, Ihave to say this probably isn't a top100 "classic" . Although Iam impressed you didn't put up the classic picture of Farrah Fawcet!

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