[J_ Crisham]

I'm surprised Pete Dye's name hasn't surfaced. When I think of Whistling Straits or TPC Sawgrass Ithink of some shots that require working the ball towards the hazard-definitely need to shape your shots on these tracks.

[Art Roselle]

I am not going to restart a Fazio discussion on this thread because there certainly seems to have been enough of that through the  years.  I do think the Crabapple course is interesting because parts of it feel like other Fazio efforts and parts of it do not.  The scale of the property is very large and so some of the feel is probably related to that.  The bunkering is very odd in places and generally gigantic (whatever you are picturing, these are likely bigger).  Everything feels a little too large, which makes me feel like a dwarf when I play it, but there are some very good holes and I think the greens are interesting.  I don't know if the greens are the most penal aspect of that course, but I suppose they might be.

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Art, Oh, come on now. Have some fun

Actually, I was just doing that in jest. There are Fazio courses that play nothing like other Fazio courses. For example, Shady Canyon, which I really do enjoy. It's a beautiful place with hardly a hole representative of what one would normally find on a Fazio course. they did a pretty good job. I'm sure Crabapple Cove is the same.

I think pretty much everything from the bunkers to the greens themselves are somewhat penal in nature. I think a lot of that penal thing comes from elevating greens on so many golf holes; creating that perch which one has to hit to. The same one my observations have been accused of coming from time to time. But that's a whole other issue.

[A.G._Crockett]

I am not going to restart a Fazio discussion on this thread because there certainly seems to have been enough of that through the  years.  I do think the Crabapple course is interesting because parts of it feel like other Fazio efforts and parts of it do not.  The scale of the property is very large and so some of the feel is probably related to that.  The bunkering is very odd in places and generally gigantic (whatever you are picturing, these are likely bigger).  Everything feels a little too large, which makes me feel like a dwarf when I play it, but there are some very good holes and I think the greens are interesting.  I don't know if the greens are the most penal aspect of that course, but I suppose they might be.

This is a very good take on Crabapple; it is as if they super-sized a "regular" golf course.  It is a gigantic piece of property with a gigantic golf course on it.
I think the greens ARE the most penal aspect of that course, and by far, and even that isn't the case if they are firm.  For their size, they have very little contour.
Hard for me to imagine that this is the kind of course that Hogan had in mind.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Phil,

My handicap floats between 0 and +3 and I try all those shots because I think it's the right way to play golf and I can't do it...I'm serious...

JES II,

There's a reason why you can't do it.

Today's equipment impedes shaping those shots without exaggerated efforts.  And with exaggerated efforts comes wayward shots, hence, it's not the high percentage shot that it once was.

Had you played back in the "good old days" I have no doubt that you would have been able to shape shots at will, and that you would have practiced same for hours and hours.

[W.H. Cosgrove]

I would agree that Dyes use of angles and visual intimidation require that a player often play away from the trouble and then bring the ball back to the pin, whether it be R > L or L> R.  

More importantly the equipment of today has simply made it almost impossible for the aspiring amateur to work the ball either direction or by changing the trajectory, which were attributes of the great players right up until Ping changed the rules with its 'eye' series.  

This winter I am changing out the shafts in my irons for something softer in an effort to improve my ability to work the ball more effectively.  Short of going to a blade it is the only thing I can think of to putting the feel and the fun back into the game.  

I'll let you know how it works!

Meanwhile, if we were more capable of moving the ball effectively, would the game be more fun? and would architects be more apt to add more strategy?

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