A question/concern re: Old MacDonald at Bandon Resort (vs. PD)

« **on:** December 06, 2007, 12:37:47 PM »

Does anyone know if the routing will take into consideration differing wind movement?

The reason I ask is that everything at PD feels either into the wind or down wind...not much side wind type stuff. Holes (for the most part) feel like they're going north or south.

I know the routing and what not's probably a "secret" and what have you, but I'm just wondering....because that's been a complaint (yes a "complaint" on the revered Pac Dunes!!!) I've heard before.

For what it's worth, I don't really feel like that's too big of an issue, but what the hell....

« **Reply #1 on:** December 06, 2007, 12:43:59 PM »

Does it really look like these holes all go in the same direction?

« **Reply #2 on:** December 06, 2007, 01:18:36 PM »

Kinda!

« **Reply #3 on:** December 06, 2007, 01:30:03 PM »

"consideration differing wind movement"

of course

« **Reply #4 on:** December 06, 2007, 01:33:32 PM »

Hiya George!

Of course it would be silly NOT to take into account the different summer and winter winds at Bandon, and make design considerations for such.

But I believe the question is did you all create more cross-wind shots than exist on the Pacific Dunes course?

I too think it's no big deal at PD, and just a function of a primarily out and back routing, but still this is an interesting question. With such predictable wind directions, you definitely had the ability to create such things....

TH

« **Reply #5 on:** December 06, 2007, 02:59:50 PM »

Hello Huck - long time no see:

(not speaking for Tom Doak) but he certainly has considered all the various wind situations in his routing plan.

One of the situations on our last visit was for us (the rest of us) to play Pac Dunes holes in strong wind conditions (I think it was about a 3+ club wind that day) - so we (amateurs) would better understand the various conditions and so we could better understand our various roles in the Old Macdonald process.

« **Reply #6 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:05:48 PM »

Sierra Bravo. Views near the ocean trump wind direction considerations. I would love to see nothing but tees along the ocean with greens inland because of the wind.

« **Reply #7 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:10:49 PM »

Quote from: George_Bahto on December 06, 2007, 02:59:50 PM

Hello Huck - long time no see:

(not speaking for Tom Doak) but he certainly has considered all the various wind situations in his routing plan.

One of the situations on our last visit was for us (the rest of us) to play Pac Dunes holes in strong wind conditions (I think it was about a 3+ club wind that day) - so we (amateurs) would better understand the various conditions and so we could better understand our various roles in the Old Macdonald process.

Great stuff! And oh yes, the wind does matter BIG TIME up there... it can get crazy... very wise for you all to play it in 3club wind. Of course you also know it gets a lot stronger than that! I once played #4 PD driver-putter... 449 yards... that's a big tailwind!

« **Reply #8 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:24:07 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on December 06, 2007, 03:10:49 PM

Great stuff! And oh yes, the wind does matter BIG TIME up there... it can get crazy... very wise for you all to play it in 3club wind. Of course you also know it gets a lot stronger than that! I once played #4 PD driver-putter... 449 yards... that's a big tailwind!

And flip around Number 4 for winter weather, I've played it at 405 from the "tips" (winter tips into wind) will well struck driver, good 3 wood, good 5 wood, 2 putts, bogey.

The reason I ask this is that pretty much everything at Pac (less one or two holes I can think of) play down wind/into the wind.

I like courses that have varying shots, doglegs where the wind plays different for each of the two shots, etc.

I just hope the new course can incorporate more "differing" shots encompassing the wind.

« **Reply #9 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:29:32 PM »

Jed - oh hell yeah - in our artict weather Feb 2007 trip I played that hole much like you. That's one of the fun parts about the resort - playing it in differing winds.

As for the rest though, I don't get the "complaint" about PD. Sure most shots are downwind or upwind, but it's not like cross wind shots don't exist.

It will however be interesting to see if OM incorporates more. I have a feeling that finding the golf holes based on what the land gives will trump forcing in holes that favor one wind or another... but either way it will be interesting to see.

TH

« **Reply #10 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:33:24 PM »

I think what Jed was trying to say goes back to Physics 101 where you have vectors with x, y, and z components.

If North to South is the Y component, and West to East is the x component, then virtually every hole, while not playing directly into the wind of that component, has the majority of the force coming from the y (North, South) component. This is especially true in a summer wind.

So while a hole like 2 or 17, doesn't play directly into the wind, the y component is by far the majority component of the wind vector. Hence, pretty much every hole is biased mostly by a "into the wind, or downwind effect", (this for the prevailing summer wind).

Thus, the side/cross wind effect is the minority component on pretty much every hole at PD in the summer wind.

« **Reply #11 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:35:53 PM »

Tom:

The complaint comes from someone who is going on an upcoming trip that is a former superintendent of a couple high-dollar clubs in Minnesota.

Personally, I think it's because he hasn't played too much on Pac (for some it is an acquired taste--for those who like championship style courses) and NOW prefers BD because of it's vastness, tournament style layout, and differing wind shots.

I have a feeling that after our trip where we'll play PD 4-5 times, he'll change his tune!

« **Reply #12 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:36:05 PM »

Kalen: oh I get that for sure. It remains an interesting question. I just still think it's not that big of a deal complaint-wise at PD... and as for the new course, what the land allows would have to trump forcing cross-wind holes onto such land...

But I am just a humble golfer.

« **Reply #13 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:36:54 PM »

Quote from: Kalen Braley on December 06, 2007, 03:33:24 PM

I think what Jed was trying to say goes back to Physics 101 where you have vectors with x, y, and z components.

Uh, yeah....

What he said.

« **Reply #14 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:37:42 PM »

I think 360-370-yards downwind was playing like 425-435 into the wind, the first day we were there

« **Reply #15 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:38:01 PM »

Jed:

He may well change his tune if you don't let him play BD also.

It is an interesting complaint, in any case. I had neither thought of it nor heard it before this thread.

TH

« **Reply #16 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:38:18 PM »

Has anyone else noticed how the routings of Pacific Dunes and Torrey Pines are similar?

« **Reply #17 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:39:19 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 06, 2007, 03:38:18 PM

Has anyone else noticed how the routings of Pacific Dunes and Torrey Pines are similar?

WHOA!

That would be odd. Can someone post a Torrey Pines map?

« **Reply #18 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:39:54 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on December 06, 2007, 03:36:05 PM

Kalen: oh I get that for sure. It remains an interesting question. I just still think it's not that big of a deal complaint-wise at PD... and as for the new course, what the land allows would have to trump forcing cross-wind holes onto such land...

But I am just a humble golfer.

Huck,

I'm just trying to actually show that I did in fact graduate from college..

As for PD itself, I had no complaints nor can think of one thing different I would do, except for blow up that gosh darned abomination they call the 16th hole....lol, relax folks, just kidding.

I would think the biggest complaint would be non-course related that they don't have a real clubhouse and instead use a trailer that they bought from one of the locals to double as the pro shop/grill.

« **Reply #19 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:41:14 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on December 06, 2007, 03:38:18 PM

Has anyone else noticed how the routings of Pacific Dunes and Torrey Pines are similar?

That is so laughable John, that doesn't even merit a real response...

« **Reply #20 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:43:10 PM »

George,
Pacific is basically a north-south oriented rectangle. Is Old MacDonald the same or is more like two rectangles, one attached to the current range and oriented N-S with and at the north end oriented E-W?

« **Reply #21 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:44:20 PM »

Tom - let me ask you a question:

Consider a 3-club wind: Would you rather play a Biarritz hole into the wind, downwind or in (more than) quartering crosswind?

not sure there is an good answer

« **Reply #22 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:46:59 PM »

George:

A biarritz hole would seem to me to be exceedingly difficult in a 3 club crosswind. I'd sure rather it be either into or against the wind... That also assumes like a normal biarritz it's a long narrow green, depression in the middle, bunkers on the sides... I'm having a hard time figuring out how to get it on the green and make it stay in a crosswind.

But maybe that's a good thing?

There is no good answer to this!

« **Reply #23 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:48:28 PM »

I don't see it...

PS, TPN would be interesting if the water came up anywhere near where that map shows!

« **Reply #24 on:** December 06, 2007, 03:49:32 PM »

Pete: The property is still a North/South rectangle but the holes are really going in all directions.

News:

Jed Peters

Michael Dugger

Jed Peters

George_Bahto

Tom Huckaby

George_Bahto

John Kavanaugh

Tom Huckaby

Jed Peters

Tom Huckaby

Kalen Braley

Jed Peters

Tom Huckaby

Jed Peters

George_Bahto

Tom Huckaby

John Kavanaugh

Tom Huckaby

Kalen Braley

Kalen Braley

Pete_Pittock

George_Bahto

Tom Huckaby

Matt_Cohn

George_Bahto