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Kyle Harris

The Titanic
« on: December 08, 2007, 12:42:40 PM »
April 14, 1912...

How much could the sinking of the Titanic have influenced golf architecture?

On board were some of the highest of Philadelphia and New York society, including the Wideners, Astors, Thayers and Strausses.

It could have just as easily been a Tillinghast, a Wilson and a Crump...
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Kalen Braley

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Re:The Titanic
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2007, 12:48:52 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Harris on December 08, 2007, 12:42:40 PM
April 14, 1912...

How much could the sinking of the Titanic have influenced golf architecture?

On board were some of the highest of Philadelphia and New York society, including the Wideners, Astors, Thayers and Strausses.

It could have just as easily been a Tillinghast, a Wilson and a Crump...

I'm assuming none of them made it on the life boats like the rich chap from the movie? ;)
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Kyle Harris

Re:The Titanic
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2007, 12:54:26 PM »
The rich chap, well, the biggest of the lot was White Star Managing Director J. Bruce Ismay.

Jack Thayer, aged 17 survived by jumping ship. John Jacob Astor perished, as did Hugh Widener...

In the ship's registry were over a dozen sets of golf clubs, so obviously some of the upper crust on board played golf. Can't help but to think if some would have had an architectural bend.
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wsmorrison

Re:The Titanic
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2007, 12:57:36 PM »
Hugh Wilson actually had reservations and planned to sail on the Titanic but was delayed and missed the sailing.  

I think Wilson was detained studying the Alps hole a bit longer so he could understand what Macdonald was building on the 10th hole at Merion East  ;)
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Kyle Harris

Re:The Titanic
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2007, 01:01:00 PM »
Quote from: Wayne Morrison on December 08, 2007, 12:57:36 PM
Hugh Wilson actually had reservations and planned to sail on the Titanic but was delayed and missed the sailing.  

I think Wilson was detained studying the Alps hole a bit longer so he could understand what Macdonald was building on the 10th hole at Merion East  ;)

Wayne, that's EXACTLY the type of anecdotal stuff I'm talking about. I figured there had to be something...
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Mark_Rowlinson

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Re:The Titanic
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2007, 01:21:35 PM »
My favourite Titanic cartoon:

Picture of White Star offices.
Banners pronouncing Titanic sinking.
Weeping relatives leaving information desk.
Man has just reached information desk with polar bear on lead:
'Any news of the iceberg?'
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TEPaul

Re:The Titanic
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2007, 01:56:51 PM »
"How much could the sinking of the Titanic have influenced golf architecture?"

Kyle:

Of course what I'm about to say is probably largely unprovable but the sinking of the Titanic may've effected golf architecture and many other things in another and totally different way.

It is pretty hard for those of our generation to overestimate or even understand just what a shock the sinking of the Titanic really was to most of the world at that time.

We don't fully appreciate, I don't think, just what the Titanic represented at that time. The ship was considered to be virtually unsinkable and was arrogantly advertized as such.

In this particular way it was seen to be perhaps the greatest shining example to that date of Man's essential technologic victory over Nature and some of the age old dangers of Nature. At that time Man was on the verge of feeling that he had finally conquered the natural world to a large extent.

And then clearly on a speed run mission to break the trans-Atlantic record she hits an iceburg and down she goes to the shock and horror of all.

The impact of this event very well may've had a major influence on many people at that time to renew their appreciation and respect for Nature and all things natural.

That alone may've enhanced and even promoted the desire to make golf architecture more natural and look more natural---in a sense to respect Nature in that way.

At least that push began happening in golf architecture almost at the same time.

Was it just a coincidence? In my opinion, I doubt it.

But perhaps the biggest shock in human history was only 2-3 years away when the Titanic went down in 1912.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2007, 01:58:24 PM by TEPaul »
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RJ_Daley

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Re:The Titanic
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2007, 02:40:31 PM »
So, man's hubris that he can invent something and through latest technology it will be unsinkable, unconquerable, and lavish and decandant to the extreme, leads to the ultimate comeuppence and disaster...

From the extravagance and decandence of recent mega-golf projects which used the ultimate in high tech/high cost construction to design an ideal golf course, I'd say the Titanic was not too influential... as it portends golf's viability.  I take it no Trumps were on board...
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Dan Kelly

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Re:The Titanic
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2007, 02:51:16 PM »
Quote from: RJ_Daley on December 08, 2007, 02:40:31 PM
I take it no Trumps were on board...

Oh, sure there were no-Trumps aboard.

They were up on the ... bridge.
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George Pazin

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Re:The Titanic
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2007, 02:52:40 PM »
Interesting date, April 14. Most know it as the day before Tax Day.

For me it's:

4/14/1865 - Lincoln was assassinated.

4/14/1912 - The Titanic sank.

4/14/1941 - Pete Rose was born.

4/14/1967 - Yours truly was born.

4/14/1975 - My beautiful baby sister was born.

4/14/1977 - The fetching Sarah Michelle Gellar, aka TV's Buffy the Vampire Slayer, was born.

Coincidence - I think not.
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Bill Brightly

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Re:The Titanic
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2007, 07:55:14 PM »
So George, your point is nothing good happened on April 14th until 1975?  ;D ;D
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Doug Ralston

Re:The Titanic
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2007, 08:42:00 PM »
Quote from: Kyle Harris on December 08, 2007, 12:54:26 PM
The rich chap, well, the biggest of the lot was White Star Managing Director J. Bruce Ismay.

Jack Thayer, aged 17 survived by jumping ship. John Jacob Astor perished, as did Hugh Widener...

In the ship's registry were over a dozen sets of golf clubs, so obviously some of the upper crust on board played golf. Can't help but to think if some would have had an architectural bend.

Well, maybe there are some great golf courses in Atlantis this very day then, just because men from the surface thought they were 'unsinkable'.

Doug
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JMorgan

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Re:The Titanic
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2007, 08:49:26 AM »
Harry Vardon, George Duncan, Ted Ray, and C.H. Mayo were scheduled to sail aboard the Lusitania en route to the US.   There's a what-if for ya.
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Sam Morrow

Re:The Titanic
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2007, 10:40:24 AM »
Tillinghast met his close friend H.R. Stroube aboard a Trans-Atlantic cruise (I don't know which boat), later Stroube would bring Tillinghast to North Texas to tweek the original 9 at Corsicana Country Club (the original 9 was done by Willie Lorimer) and design another 9.
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