[jeffwarne]

I think we all can agree that holes 7-14 are very special.

I think Don points out the differences that separate people's opinions.
He doesn't like 1-2 or 17 -18 --holes which on the surface can appear to be pedestrian holes.(pedestrian may be the wrong word with the road a big part of the landscape)

I think #1 is the perfect starting hole, a throwback to the days of giving a nice warm up drive (before the modern time consuming, mostly useless tradition of pounding 60 balls before playing),  followed by what I find a pretty difficult green if your drive is less than perfect.
It gets people off the tee without a log-jam of lost balls as well.

#2 is a good par five (wonderful green complex), but the road left probably puts people off.

#17 is a GREAT hole, full of risk reward and a scary second approaching the tiny,slopey  green with 5 presses on the line.

I like # 18 as the green is in a cool location.

3,4,5,6 and 16 are pretty darn good as well so it's pretty clear I'm not real objective.

[Gene Greco]

I think #1 is the perfect starting hole, a throwback to the days of giving a nice warm up drive (before the modern time consuming, mostly useless tradition of pounding 60 balls before playing),  followed by what I find a pretty difficult green if your drive is less than perfect.
It gets people off the tee without a log-jam of lost balls as well.

Jeff:

     Statements and astute observations like yours above are what makes Golfclubatlas  an "authoratative website" (according to the NY Times or WSJ).

It's a fabulous opener usually playing downwind to a hard, crowned green which will punish a somewhat mishit wedge.

It's an ideal opener for all the reasons you have stated.

              Gene

[Matt_Ward]

Sean A:

I am speaking about the merits of the architecture of the course itself -- not the nature of the range of activities the club has beyond the golf or the manner by which all those good-natured folks socialize with one another during the high days of summer.

Frankly, this is a site for architecture -- if one is there because of the nature of the blueberry pancakes during breakfast or whether Henri properly addresses you when you enter the main dining room -- then so be it for those folks.

I'm there for the golf -- they could have a pup tent serving as the clubhouse and that would be fine for me. No doubt the nature of what the "other" amenities is important / essential for those who are members and a good deal of the guests who have the fortunate nature to be there. Nothing wrong with that given its importance to those who value it so highly.

I just try to separate the golf dimension from all the other "extras" that don't have shread of connection to the actual architecture.

Jerry K:

There's no comparison between NGLA / Shinnecock and Maidstone, in my mind. They only share a close proximity to one another IMHO. The issue is not whether Maidstone is a good course --the more pressing issue is whether it deserves to be a member of the elite 100 courses in the USA. On that score -- I say no way given the range of courses I have played.

I don't doubt the pedigree of a number of holes in the middle of the course -- I've always believed #9 to be one of those really special holes in all of American golf. But the lesser holes can be dressed up in any manner others may speak -- they are clearly lacking and a good bit more connected to the inferior class than anything else.

Maidstone has long benefited from the tony neighborhood it occupies. Ditto the mover and shaker types who call The Hamptons home for much of the summer. Plop the course down in nowhere USA and it would be lucky to get a footnote of attention.

Like I said there are moments of exciting golf but they are fleeting and the nature of the land is a blend of high octane excitement along with a pedestrian flavor in a number of the other locations.

One other thing -- Maidstone gets a spike of support because the total length of the course is well within the comfort zone of many players. Many won't say that but it does have a factor in the final analysis, in my opinion.

 

[Mike_Cirba]

I'll say this about Maidstone;

On my only visit there a few years ago we played from sun-up til sundown, only stopping for a quick lunch, and then playing our 35th and 36th holes of the day in near total darkness.

I think I can speak for the other members of my group when I say that if they had lights on the course we would have walked from the 18th green to the 1st tee!  

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I'd agree that Maidstone is a delight.

One of its assets is its proximity to the Atlantic Ocean and the WINDS that sweep the property.

As to # 18, I"ve hit drive and wedge in the morning and drive and 4-iron in the afternoon.

Like Seminole, the wind can be a huge factor.

Maidstone is "sporty", with a flavor more like NGLA than SH, Atlantic or Sebonack where length can make things difficult from the back tees.

To a degree, like Newport, conditioning can be largely dependent upon Mother Nature.

Sometimes the course can be in good shape, while other times it can be lacking.

I think it's one of those courses that makes you want to step off the 18th green and onto the 1st tee.

In fact, that's exactly what I did the first time I played it.

Getting back to my host's home 5 hours late, when they were holding a party that night didn't endear me to his girlfriend, who had to do all of the work since my host agreed that another 18 was in order.

Golf is a game that presents a challenge.
When that challenge is enjoyable, it combines the best of what golf has to offer, and that's how I feel about Maidstone, NGLA, Seminole and others.

[TEPaul]

"....now these were the good old days, what a wonderfully thoughtful and civil discussion."

Jeff Lewis:

You're right about that. At the time of this thread I think the site was something like three months old. I don't know how or why but over the years GOLFCLUBATLAS.com has turned me into some kind of a monster. But back then I don't think I had to deal with argumentative numb-skulls like Patrick Mucci all the time, as I do now!  

[Patrick_Mucci]

"....now these were the good old days, what a wonderfully thoughtful and civil discussion."

Jeff Lewis:

You're right about that. At the time of this thread I think the site was something like three months old. I don't know how or why but over the years GOLFCLUBATLAS.com has turned me into some kind of a monster. But back then I don't think I had to deal with argumentative numb-skulls like Patrick Mucci all the time, as I do now!  

Jeff,

TEPaul gives me far too much credit.

He was a monster long before I showed up on his radar screen.

[TEPaul]

By the way, of all the courses I know in America, Maidstone in the feelings people have for it, and against it, may be as close to the way so many have felt about TOC over the years. Some obviously just love the latter even if others just don't seem to like it or understand it or even understand why others like it so much.

Those two courses may even be the perfect examples of how one can tell what some think of golf course architecture generally.

[TEPaul]

"I think it's one of those courses that makes you want to step off the 18th green and onto the 1st tee."

Patrick, you blockhead, Maidstone is not just one of those courses that makes you want to step off the 18th green and onto the 1st tee there's basically no real way of avoiding stepping off the 18th green and back onto the 1st tee even if you're done and you're going into the clubhouse to have a bunch of drinks as I always did!

[jim_lewis]

I have played Maidstone only once, on a cold windy October morning about 4 years ago. I played with an assistant pro, never went in the club house, and never met a member. All I "experienced" was the course. Like Pebble Beach (which always seems to get a pass), it may have few holes that aren't so great, but the holes in the middle are in a league of their own.

I have played most of the "famous" courses on Long Island, some several times. If I could play only one of them on my next trip, I would choose Maidstone. It may not be the best, but it is my favorite.

Jim Lewis

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

I offered that as excuse # 18 C

I told her that I thought it was a 36 hole golf course, but, judging from her reaction, I don't think she bought it.

Will you and/or Wayno be in Florida this winter ?

[M. Shea Sweeney]

Maidstone suffers from the hot popular girl view---

People don't give her the credit for being hot because shes popular although she has a shitty attitude.

admit it, boys, She's smokin!

[TEPaul]

"Will you and/or Wayno be in Florida this winter?"

Patrick:

My new barn/office is almost finished and it's very cool and when it is finished I'm going in there and shutting the door and locking it and I'm just going to think, nothing more, for the rest of my life.

Florida is too far away now, there's too damn many mosquitoes down there and I think I need to leave the place alone and just let the Spanish Conquistadors and the English duke it out down there to see who wins.

[Patrick_Mucci]

MSS,

I agree, how could you NOT enjoy playing Maidstone ?

It's a wonderful golf course, day in and day out.

[Dean Stokes]

An absolute gem. Played here in October and loved every minute. Hole 5 was one of my favorites - a driveable par 4 with danger everywhere. Even an iron off the tee requires thought. Just a pleasure to play. The only hole I did not care for was the par 3 #8. I do not get any pleasure from a par 3 where I cannot see the pin - let alone the green. Half the size of the hill at the front and it is a great short par 3.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dean,

They used to have an extra long flagstick for # 8 to help guide your direction.

I loved the hole, but some are put off by its blind to semi-blind nature

[TEPaul]

"Hole 5 was one of my favorites - a driveable par 4 with danger everywhere. Even an iron off the tee requires thought."

Dean:

A driveable par 4??

Jeeesus, you must be really long or there must have been one helluva wind out of the east.

But #5's tee shot choices amongst golfers has always interested me a lot. I've just never understood why so many hit driver on that hole constantly. It's just taking on so much risk and for what exactly? I've seen so many get it past the bunkers and then just screw up some sort of half shot. I even watched Vinnie Giles hit a driver into the left bunker and then just screw the hole up royally.

That seems to be one of those holes you just get into a single tee shot mode and stick with it endlessly. I've probably played that hole a couple of hundred times at least and I've never hit anything off that tee but a long iron.

[TEPaul]

"The only hole I did not care for was the par 3 #8. I do not get any pleasure from a par 3 where I cannot see the pin - let alone the green. Half the size of the hill at the front and it is a great short par 3."


Dean:

Maybe you're new on here so I'll tell you the story of that hill or dune on #8 that basically blinds the green.

Years ago some significant member of Maidstone got so upset with that dune and the blindness it creates he had the whole thing removed at the end of the season. When he came back in the spring Mother Nature had put it right back just the way it had been before and as it remains now.  


That's just Mother Nature's way I guess, but on the flipside I'll tell you something pretty interesting about the next hole--the 9th which happens to be about my favorite par 4 in the world.

Apparently Willie Park Jr basically dropped the entire length of that fairway about 10 feet and carted all the fill over to the 7th to create basically that fairway.

[Dean Stokes]

TEPaul,
I definitely am new here, but not new to golf. I actually hit iron off the 5th tee, however arrinving at my second shot I wished I'd hit driver. Would the wind not be out of the North if it were to help on that hole? As for #8 that is a very interesting story - are you sure it was mother nature or a group of members who liked the hill!?

[TEPaul]

"..are you sure it was mother nature or a group of members who liked the hill!?"

Well, Dean, sometimes at Maidstone that's kind of one and the same.  

[Dean Stokes]

 For my one minor complaint about the 8th - I would play that golf course everyday of the year and enjoy it.  Has to have one of the best half way houses in the world?

[TEPaul]

"I actually hit iron off the 5th tee, however arrinving at my second shot I wished I'd hit driver. Would the wind not be out of the North if it were to help on that hole?"


Hmm, Dean, that's a good question. I might be able to answer that for you if you answer a question for me first.

Do you think #5 and #9 run in pretty much the opposite direction?

I'll tell you why I ask you that later.

But for now you should know something about me first.

Basically, I've never known what direction anything is in because I've never been able to figure out where I'm going.

One time when I lived in Long Island I jumped in my car to go down to Florida and about five hours later I arrived in Boston.

I suspect this kind of thing I might have gotten from Mattie, the person I was perhaps closest to in my live. Mattie came from the banks of the Sewannee River in North Florida, and she was one great black mammy.

The very first time I laid eyes on Mattie when I was five in Daytona Beach and on the first day she came to work for us, she took one look at me and the very first thing she said to me was:

"So, you're five and you already think you know it all, huh?

Mattie never could drive a car.

I learned how to drive when I was seven on the beach in Daytona. When I was about ten I decided I'd try to teach Mattie how to drive a car.

We had this old Nash Rambler station wagon and I took it down to the end of the driveway in Long Island which was very straigtht and let Mattie get behind the wheel for the first time in her life.

Mattie hit the gas pretty hard and proceeded to drive right off the straight driveway and into a tree in the apple orchard.

One time Mattie and a couple of members of her family were heading down to Florida from New York and for some reason somewhere around North Georgia they took a wrong turn and ended up in New Orleans.

Anyway, that's just a little background for you with me and direction.

But if you tell me if you think the 5th hole runs in the opposite direction to the 9th I’ll be able to tell you with complete assurance if the wind coming from behind the tee on #5 is coming from the east.

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