[Tommy Williamsen]

I realize that the land dictates hole progression to a certain extent but when routing a course are their certain combinations that work best?  For instance does a short par five work well if the next hole is along par four?  Do a series of long par fours work or should it be broken up with a short par four?

What combinations would you like to see?
To the architects: Do you have favorite combinations?

[Tom_Doak]

I really don't have combinations that I try to use in a routing ... it's whatever works out.

The one I like best is to have a short par-4 followed by a really hard one.  If the good player happens to mess up the short 4, he's going to be upset when he gets to the hard hole, and then maybe I've gotten under his skin.

[Jason McNamara]

I was just going to say it seems like it would depend on what the best layout was.

I guess the only question comes when there are a number of good routings.  Tom, are there any factors that you use when judging one routing against another?  That is, assuming there are no obvious concerns wrt clubhouse, short 5 + long 3 start, 1st hole facing east? Apologies if I have missed it you mention it elsewhere, but did BN have the same myriad options that Sand Hills did?

Thanks.

[Tom_Doak]

Jason:

There were certainly many options we looked at for Ballyneal, though not as many as Sand Hills, because the land is steeper and more choppy and you couldn't play in any direction you wanted (unless you like a lot of blind shots).

Certainly I know all of the factors that are on most people's checklists of what not to do -- first or last holes playing into the sun, consecutive par-3's (although it has worked out well for me before), etc.  And I do think about those things some.  But it's all a balancing act, and I won't let one particular rule override the others.  At Stone Eagle I was perfectly willing to start or finish the course with a par-3, but the client didn't want to do either, so it's our 19th hole.  

I might very well wind up with a par-3 finisher on a course in the planning stages now -- it depends on where we decide the clubhouse should be.

[Kalen Braley]

Tom,

Speaking of back to back par 3s...

At PD, with number 10 and 11, did you ever consider that same piece of land as a dogleg right par 4?  I know it plays into the prevailing wind, and perhaps it would be too tough for high cappers, but was just curious.

Or perhaps even locating the tees 50-60 yards behind the current low tees on 10 and making it a short par 5?  After all, the course could have set a record of sorts for having 4 par 5s on one 9.  

[Jason McNamara]

Tom,

Sorry, I don't think I asked a good question the first time.  What I was really wondering was, what are some of the less well-known factors that will lead you to choose between similarly good routings?  Do you get to the point where one path might just have a better feel to it, or does it remain more concrete than that?

[Forrest Richardson]

I agree with Tom D. that you really must go with what works.

But, since I have probably worked on more boring, flat, uninteresting sites than Tom, I will comment that there is much more personal preference by the designer in such cases. In essence, a blank canvas to a large degree, although views, sunlight, wind and other factors know no bounds of topography or bordom of terrain.

At Grande Valley in Eloy ( http://www.grandevalleygolf.com/holes.html ) which was done many, many years ago, I had less than 4 feet of fall from one side of the site to the other. We could pretty much do whatever we wanted. I recall laboring over the routing, trying to not be too formula-based, yet wanting to make sure we did not create any undue pace or flow obstacles. My regret there was going with a traditional par total and not looking for five par 3s or perhaps something interesting, such as a par-74! Arizona could use one of those and we certainly had the space!

[Phil_the_Author]

Tom,

Your response, "There were certainly many options we looked at for Ballyneal... I might very well wind up with a par-3 finisher on a course in the planning stages now -- it depends on where we decide the clubhouse should be..." greatly intrigued me because of an incredible discovery made just this last weekend.

A club in Connecticut where Tilly made some recommendations in 1936 during his PGA tour, just found in an old filing cabinet a 13-page report and proposal written by him in April of 1939. It is for an 18-hole renovation with a completely new re-routing of the course; in a sense, possibly his last full design.

There was even a photocopy of a portion of a sketch done by him of the new layout.

The reason I mention this is because it opens with his stating that he considered 3 different re-routings and designs before settling on the particular one he was recommending. The decision was made based a great deal on where they would move the clubhouse to. Finally, the 18th hole was a par-3.

And the name of the course? A mention of this will be made in Tillinghast Illustrated issue #3 which comes out on Monday, so you'll have to wait til then...

A full article about the discovery and what it signifies will be in issue #4 out in mid-January. That one will also contain an interview with Tom...

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()