Whats the latest with Yale?

[GeoffreyC]

Joel is right.  GO out and enjoy the great green complexes and have a fun round.  I can go and get photos any time.

Let us know what you think.

Joel- George has more knowledge of Yale in his pinky finger then I own in my whole body.

[Bruceski]

I will definitely enjoy playing the course. I actually find photographing a course while playing lets me enjoy it more -- both during the round and afterward at home as I move through the photos on my PC. This process etches the course in my mind and allows me to approach the course from a new perspective the next time I play it.

By the way, anyone recognize this Long Island course?

[brad_miller]

On the plus side, how significant is the tree work being done? Have heard they have cleared the left side of #6, what else?

[SPDB]

Bruceski -

NHCC

[Matt_Ward]

I've played Yale about 10 times over the last 25 years and it continually amazes me that a University with a mega, mega $$$ in its endowment and God only knows how much has been stored in other places could do such injustice to a wonderful layout.

My word -- this is Yale!!! Not some community college with pseudo / quesitonable history.

When I played with Geoff this past Saturday I asked him what indeed is happening and he just shook his head with disgust!

I would find it hard to believe the issue is $$. It must be the golf course is operated because this situation has been going on for quite time. In simple terms -- who calls the shots at the course? If it is the famed "committee" (colleges / universities love these arrangements) then the final product of endless compromises and incremental thinking usually results in nothing of substance happening.

Unfortunately, until golf course operations / management are straightened out the story of Yale will be nothing more than the same. It's beyond sad -- it's tragic because the course has a rich array of holes, wonderful terrain and shotmaking challenges that never bore you when playing.

[Bruceski]

SPDB,

Guess that's an easy one.  

[SPDB]

That 8th (i think?), is a pretty recognizable hole if you've played it/seen it. don't you agree?

[Scott_Burroughs]

Might NHCC be Jeff Fortson's employer?  Next door to one of the most exclusive clubs around?

[SPDB]

Scott - Different NHCC.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

The pics must be N. Hempstead instead of N. Hills.

[SPDB]

indeed. it seems that bruceski, for good reason, has a thing for Tillie designs.

[Bruceski]

Actually, I do like his designs. But my familiarity with North Hempstead is accidental. My best friend happens to be a new member there, and often invites me out to play on the weekends. It's a nice layout, in my opinion, and fun to play (read: not too long). The greens are lightning fast and quite difficult, and clearly bear the mark of Tillie. Tee to green is pretty fun, but the strokes pile up around the greens.  

[George Bahto]

bruceski: you do know the 2nd hole was built by Charles Banks(the only thing he did there) - great green

[Bruceski]

George,

Second hole of NHCC? Or Yale?

I played Yale today, but we were thundered out after the 10th hole. I'm a bit depressed by that. So I didn't see the entire course. I took a bunch of digital images, though, and I'll post some later.

I found the course to be very unique and clearly in a class by itself. It is very short, and I played extremely well (for me). I was able to get away with long irons off the tee just fine. I often was on the green in regulation. The undulations of the greens are very extreme! The course is in really mediocre condition, unfortunately. It actually feels like a muni. The greens are inconsistent, and slow. The fairways, though, are in pretty decent condition. I can see how many people bemoan the nature of the bunkers. They seem significantly altered from a former greatness. Not sure how, maybe others can elaborate better.

What I liked best was the feeling that strategy off the tee made a difference to an average player like myself. I could work my way around with well-placed intelligent 3-irons, and because I was hitting every fairway, I found that I was in good positions for my approaches. It felt satisfying, and I feel like I would like to play a FULL 18 next time.

[George Bahto]

bruceski - sorry meant the second hole at No Hempstead - the 3 over water

[Bruceski]

You mean this one, George? Yes. I like this hole, too. Very tough green to putt.

[Joel_Stewart]

I played Yale all the way back at 6749 yards and didn't think it was that short.  #4, 6, 9, 10, 15, 16, 17, and 18 at 621 are pretty big holes?  Its all you want for the average Joe but I understand that when he Nike tour was played the pros ate it up.

[George Bahto]

that's the hole bruceski - there's so much going on on that green! - Raynor did a single hole at Nassau CC also

[Mike_Sweeney]

I thought people would be interested to know that I just received an update from the Director of Golf at Yale that "The next phase of the (bunker restoration) project is currently scheduled to begin in the Fall of 2002. Restoration of holes number 12 (including the original alps cross bunker) thirteen and sixteen and the reintroduction of greenside bunkers on two and seventeen are currently in the planning phase."

George and Geoffrey any comments?

[GeoffreyC]

Mike

I will copy to you a long letter in repy to Peter Pulaski's request on behalf of the alumni committee for funds from the membership.

In short, this is a farce.  

Where is the Master Plan to show the membership what in detail will be done?

Where is the public forum of members to discuss the project?

Where is Roger Rulewich talking to the members about what he is doing and answering our questions?

The letter stated in part that “Leaders from our alumni membership have stepped forward over the past eighteen months to lay the foundation for achieving a complete restoration of our magnificent Charles Blair MacDonald golf course”. Sure, I was the one who got this whole thing started and it sure went in the wrong direction from there.

WHAT A JOKE They haven't even talked to members who remember where the humps on the 2nd green were; where the contour was removed from the 6th green; how high the alps hill was and the fact that the alps bunker was 8 feet deep!  Anyone want to bet me that the "complete restoration" done by Roger Rulewich in conjunction the the expert alumni committee will result in a bunker that is even close to 8 feet deep?  Takers anyone?

[George Bahto]

Mike: I think I'm "commented" out about Yale.

It is absolutely incredible they use the word "restoration" - perhaps a trip to Webster's is in order. We started with "restore" - then to "repair" - a few more words beginning with "re" - and back to "restore."  This is higher education I guess.

This reminds me of a course I played for about 17-years in West Orange, NJ - the "West" course of the Essex County CC. It was the "other" 18-holes of the course, the private course, Essex County CC (then the East course) where I am currently doing a bunker restoration. The club let that 18 go public to help to support the private member-shipped East Course. It was finally sold to a New Jersey county and is now called Francis Byrne. Well, I moved on to play the Knoll at about that time and one day my long-time partner and I went back to play a match or something with some of our old friends. When we went to sign up a number of "the guys" told us we had better go back to The Knoll and just remember the "West Course" as it was, for it had been shorted and fooled with so much they took the heart out of that great course.

This is the way I feel about the Yale course now. It would be difficult for me to play there again - I'd rather remember "her" the way "she" was. Fortunately, I took a lot of early photos of Yale while researching for the book.

What will happen to the great features left to "do?" - the crossbunker on 12 - the PN on 17 (probably one of the best ever built - makes the 2 Principal Nose bunkers at NGLA look a bit weak) - and of course, what was once my pet, the original green on the 3rd hole that I originally uncovered.

16-green will probably be freelanced because the entire green was moved - it was a bit weak to begin with except for the players from the 1920s and 30s.

It's interesting to hear people who are now playing Yale for the first time speaking of how great the course is.  They should have played it with the original bunkering.

People have been killing that course since the 1950s and it lives on - I guess Raynor was not roo bad.

One day I'll say what I really think - seriously!

[Mike_Sweeney]

George,

I am one of those who loves the course, but I have to admit that when I saw the recent thread on the 5th hole at Yale, and Geoffrey referred everyone to Shackelford's book for the comparison to the "old" hole, I was really disappointed that I did not get to see the The Old Yale. On a number of rounds, Geoffrey has tried to explain The Old Yale, but obviously a picture is worth a thousand words.

Looking forward to your book, last time I looked it sounds like September is the release.

Thanks