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Tim Leahy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #25 on: November 27, 2007, 03:00:43 PM »
Tom, I'm glad you came up with this catagory, because I have always felt guilty about enjoying my round at the Ranch. I guess I just enjoyed those big beautiful elevated tees more than you did.
I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

Tom Huckaby

Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #26 on: November 27, 2007, 03:06:26 PM »
Tim:

Well, you're not alone in enjoying THE RANCH.  And it does have nice views.  But the reason I absolutely completely patently HATE that course, whereas I find Crossings at Carlsbad to be great fun, can come down to three things:

a) The Ranch's fairways and tee shot corridors are so damn tight, one is just about guaranteed to lose a ball for every handicap stroke; as opposed to Crossings, where the fairways are huge; and

b) conditions at The Ranch are generally soft and mushy, whereas Crossings played very firm and fast.

c) Crossings I may never play again, whereas THE RANCH is the 2nd closest course to my house, and greets me like a punch in the face every time I travel down 101 (which is often).

So... it's likely me, as they are similary stupid courses on land that never should have been given for golf.  But then again, Gib Papazian hated The Ranch more than I did.

TH

« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 03:07:12 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #27 on: November 27, 2007, 04:44:41 PM »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #28 on: November 27, 2007, 04:57:55 PM »

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #29 on: November 27, 2007, 05:06:15 PM »
...
c) there is ESA EVERYWHERE!
...


ESA?

Environmentally Sensitive Areas

Ahh...  They have those at strips clubs as well.

 ::)

Tom

Pete_Pittock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #30 on: November 27, 2007, 05:24:56 PM »
Tom Y. -The government gets to determine what is environmentally sensitive areas. Are you sure gentleman's clubs want government intrusion.

Tom H -I thought "the strip" clubs were Wynn's and Bali Hai.
Would the "Sky" course near Rustic meet your definition?


   Previous threads have decried the high green fees and many have said they wouldn't pay over $xx to play. What is your over/under for this one? ;D

   The only true cart courses I have played are Kapalua,
Wente Vineyards and Black Forest Highlands.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2007, 05:53:55 PM »
It seems to me that you liked the holes but not the routing.
It sounds like there is some substance to the design.
The routing is something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

I don't think this is a new catagory though Tom.

Where is the guilty pleasure in enjoying a fun hole or decent green.

Good holes but a bad course doesn't make a dumb blonde.

Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2007, 06:00:11 PM »
The ride from the 11th green to the 12th tee isn't even contained by the map.

Tom Huckaby

Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2007, 06:01:50 PM »
Peter:

When I get the hall pass to play, no amount of money every stops me.  I paid $105 to play this course, with no regrets.  Now if I lived nearby, it would piss me off it costs this much... but for a one-time thing, I wasn't put off.  And no, I wouldn't say either course at Lost Canyons meets this definition - to me those were both pretty darn good courses, no matter what the purists on here say.  These strip club one feels guilty for liking... I feel no guilt at all about Lost Canyons.  And one more thing - I've walked Wente Vineyards several times - you just need a ride to the first tee and hopefully one from 9 green to 10.  Outside of that, it's a very doable walk.  This Crossings Course puts Wente to shame in the most unwalkable category.

Mike:

You have it right.  I just call this a strip club course because it goes against all sense of architectural decency, given how horrible it is to walk, how much it cost to build, etc.  I feel guilty in this forum for liking it.  But outside of here, there is no guilt.

TH

Tom Huckaby

Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2007, 06:04:07 PM »
The ride from the 11th green to the 12th tee isn't even contained by the map.

It goes from 11 green across a bridge, around the back of 12 green and then down the left side of 12, going backwards down the length of the hole.

Crazy, crazy stuff.  But you can see why it had to happen.  He had to have wanted two holes in that corridor but the ESA requirement made it impossible... likely imposed after the routing was done.... thus also requiring the addition of the tiny 9th hole, and shortening of the 8th.

TH
« Last Edit: November 27, 2007, 06:06:19 PM by Tom Huckaby »

Bryan Izatt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2007, 03:57:21 PM »
I'm gonna blame this on Huckaby.  ;D  It was dismal day last Friday in San Diego, flash flood, mud slide and wind warnings, but it was our last day in CA and we're looking for a course to play where it wasn't raining.  The Crossings was it - based on this thread.

On the way to the course we stop at Pro Golf Discount looking for a travel bag to replace my destroyed one.  The store manager asks where we're playing and suggests maybe we don't want to play the Crossings.  The greens are ridiculous, he says.

Appetites whetted, we head to the course.  Arrive at 12:30.  Get a time for 1:00 for a twilight rate of $55.  Seems like a pretty reasonable price.  Get paired with a couple of young studs even though the course is relatively empty.  One of them works at the club.  He says it's the most expensive course ever built - $71M. A very nice clubhouse and a lot of very big bridges no doubt contributing.

Regrettably, given the rain forecast and limited time, I forgot to take the camera.  Too bad, it's a very photogenic course.  The two holes that can be seen from the road are two of the tamer holes.

It reminded me most of Wolf Creek in Mesquite althought the landscape was more scrubby than rocky like WC.

The view from the fouth tee overlooks the back nine and my only reaction was holy cow or words to that effect.

My son, the triathlete, wanted to walk it (with clubs on the cart), but gave that up quickly based upon the long drives and huge climbs and drops between holes.  The 12th Tom mentioned is merely the longest, but flattest of those.  To add to the pleasure of the 12th there is a black chain link fence with an overhang to protect the players driving along the side of the fairway to the tee.  It's not visible from the tees though.  After all that the 12th on it's own is a really good and daunting hole.

The two short par threes seemed OK to me.  I didn't feel they were forced.  Perhaps they were better for the brisk winds of the day.

Unfortunately the ground was wet given the rain earlier in the day, so it did not play fast and firm.  Worse, we were restricted to the cart paths.  I hate playing cart path only.  On the other hand the course is unwalkable.

There are a number of vertigo inducing tees and greens on the course.  Rather than "strip club" I'm thinking more "Space Mountain" to describe the course.  Something of a thrill ride, both literally and figuratively.

The ESA's are on six holes they tell you at the beginning.  They were pretty sparse ESA's, but I guess they're trying to reclaim that land to a more natural state.  They didn't really interfere with play.

After the build up to the greens, they were not as exaggerated as I expected.  Lots of plateaus but not over the top.  Only complaint would be that the rises to the some of the plateaus were so steep that they couldn't be effectively mowed.  Oh, and the greens were the spongiest I've ever walked on.  Like a sponge on top of rock.  Most new greens I've played are very hard and sound like a drum if you tap them with a club.  These were not.

Played the 18th more or less in the dark.  Even darker after they turned out the range lights next to the 18th.  Found my drive and hit a 4 iron to a flag that appeared to be sitting on a cape green hanging on a rock outcropping over the canyon.  Hit the green and made par.  Nice finish to CA.  The couple playing in front of us were sitting above the 18th green.  Turned out they were employees and were tracking us on the GPS to "make sure we hadn't driven into a canyon in the dark".  Nice to see they cared.

My summary, a lot of interesting holes taken on their own.  The routing is hopeless if you want to walk.  It's a very difficult site but the course is certainly worth experiencing.

Matthew summed it up best: it was fun and an experience to play, but he wouldn't want to play it all the time.  So maybe more of a dumb blonde of a course.

So in the end, thanks Tom for raising the visibility of the course here.  Otherwise I may not have experienced it.   ;D

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2007, 08:59:43 PM »
How about Shadow Creek?

Yeah, I think that works.  Many here deride it, but I sure found it fun to play.  And I always do feel some guilt praising it given the obscene amount of money spent on building the place.

TH

But.....one can walk Shadow Creek and there are no ESA's....which blows out a good portion of the original theorem. And the money spent by Wynn just wasn't that much....for him.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Tom Huckaby

Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2007, 10:42:30 AM »
This just goes to show how we can catch courses looking so differently based on weather and other factors... when I played Crossings, it was quite firm and fast, no spongy greens, we did not have to keep the carts on the path, and we played very fast - didn't wait on a single shot.  Thus my positive experience.

If I had played it under the conditions Bryan did, odds are I never would have posted about it!

Bryan, just remember, I did this post as a lark - I sure as hell would NOT recommend this course for any architecture aficionados.  So if you did play it based on what I said in here, hopefully you went in with a great sense of humor, as your post pretty much indicates!

TH

ps to Jon - I just would look at Shadow Creek as a "guilty pleasure" in this forum - which was the intent of this thread.   I don't think these courses need be cartball nor have ESAs to meet this threshold.

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2007, 01:58:07 PM »
The only guilt I ever felt regarding Shadow was while reporting that I had enjoyed a manufactured Fazio on this forum :'(.
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Tom Huckaby

Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #39 on: December 11, 2007, 10:25:49 AM »
The only guilt I ever felt regarding Shadow was while reporting that I had enjoyed a manufactured Fazio on this forum :'(.

Which is the exact guilt that I am talking about.

Outside of this forum, oh hell yeah, the talk just makes one's friends envious.

TH

Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #40 on: December 11, 2007, 12:50:21 PM »
On my only trip to Orlando (to stay and play at Bay Hill) the only semblance of humanity I could find in the whole hell hole was in a strip club... I no longer frequent them, but I certainly feel less guilt in such establishments than I do in a locker room where some attendant wants to shine my shoes.

Jon Spaulding

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #41 on: December 11, 2007, 08:15:18 PM »
The only guilt I ever felt regarding Shadow was while reporting that I had enjoyed a manufactured Fazio on this forum :'(.

Which is the exact guilt that I am talking about.

Outside of this forum, oh hell yeah, the talk just makes one's friends envious.

TH

I'd wager there are a few out of 1500 here that have not played Shadow.... but would love to. You are correct as to it being a guilty pleasure, albeit when in the company of some on this forum, which constitutes .000000000000000001 of the people that play golf.

Now, the fun part is in explaining why, I might enjoy something like Rustic/equivalent more than the Shadow Creeks and Crossings of the world to the other .9999999999999999999 on the other side of the ledger. ::)
You'd make a fine little helper. What's your name?

Jim Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #42 on: December 11, 2007, 08:20:30 PM »
There's no putting in the Champagne Room...
Jim Thompson

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #43 on: December 12, 2007, 10:48:18 AM »
It seems that each year we see five "dumb blonde courses" open for each new classic or great course.

 Two cities want to build a golf course. One builds The Crossings. The other builds Chambers Bay. I guess golf course owners (cities and casinos) believe that golfers like "dumb blonde courses".

I wish the ratio was more like 3 to 1 rather than 5 to 1. There would be more courses like Chambers Bay and Olivas Links.

Which architect designs the best "dumb blonde course"?

I would not blame the architect as much as the client for this trend.
 

Tom Huckaby

Re:"Strip Club" golf courses?
« Reply #44 on: December 12, 2007, 10:50:43 AM »
Scott:  I think you're right.  I just don't blame the client either... the golf world in general LOVES "dumb blonde" courses - it seems only in here that they are reviled.

TH