[Pete_Pittock]

At Nefyn budget your time to play all 26 holes. For sightseeing in the north include Portmerion.

If you can lay your hands on a copy of Donald Steel's "Classic Golf Links......." before the massaging the trip, do so.

[jeffwarne]

Jason,
It's a constantly moving target.
Day 1
arrive Manchester
play North Wales
Stay -Bull Bay

Day 2
Bull Bay
Nefyn
Stay -Harlech

Day 3
Royal St. David's
Aberdovey
Stay- Aberdovey (Aberystwyth)

Day 4
drive to Tenby
play Tenby
drive to The Mumbles
Stay -The Mumbles  (Tenby)

With all the driving that day(4 hours) the boys get an 18 hole day (I really wanted to throw in Cardigan in which case I'd stay at the places in parenthesese (and flip day 5 and 6 to catch Asburnham on the way in), but it's too much.

Day 5
Royal Portcawl
Southerndown
Stay -The Mumbles

Day 6
Ashburnham
Pennard
Stay-The Mumbles

Day 7 -fly out Bristol

10 rounds, 6  days, I'm slipping
killing me to miss Cardigan, but 3 nights in the same hotel + an 18 hole day in the middle will help morale
 

 

[Joe Bentham]

Ed--
great pics, thanks for sharing.  Taking a good golf picture isn't easy even with the newest cameras, as my memory card will attest to.  
What's the deal with the 8th picture of Nefyn & District?  Is that the permanent tee?

[Ed Tilley]

Ed--
great pics, thanks for sharing.  Taking a good golf picture isn't easy even with the newest cameras, as my memory card will attest to.  
What's the deal with the 8th picture of Nefyn & District?  Is that the permanent tee?

The matted tee at the 14th hole (8th picture) is a permanent tee. It is on the tower that you can see from the tee of the all-world 13th hole (picture 4 & picture 5). There is a grass tee to the right of the tower but it's much lower and the angle is not quite as good so the main tee is the artificial one you see.

This is the only artificial tee and, in the circumstances, it is probaly the best thing to do.

[Ed Tilley]

Jason,
It's a constantly moving target.
Day 1
arrive Manchester
play North Wales
Stay -Bull Bay

Day 2
Bull Bay
Nefyn
Stay -Harlech

Day 3
Royal St. David's
Aberdovey
Stay- Aberdovey (Aberystwyth)

Day 4
drive to Tenby
play Tenby
drive to The Mumbles
Stay -The Mumbles  (Tenby)

With all the driving that day(4 hours) the boys get an 18 hole day (I really wanted to throw in Cardigan in which case I'd stay at the places in parenthesese (and flip day 5 and 6 to catch Asburnham on the way in), but it's too much.

Day 5
Royal Portcawl
Southerndown
Stay -The Mumbles

Day 6
Ashburnham
Pennard
Stay-The Mumbles

Day 7 -fly out Bristol

10 rounds, 6  days, I'm slipping
killing me to miss Cardigan, but 3 nights in the same hotel + an 18 hole day in the middle will help morale
 

 

Bl**dy hell Jeff - you're a braver man than me. I have a few suggestions to cut down on driving.

Day 3 - Aberdovey (or Aberdyfi if you want to be pedantic) to Aberystwyth is abouth a 45 minute drive, slightly less than the drive from Tenby to Mumbles (Swansea). If you stay in Aberdyfi (both The Dovey Inn and Penhelig Arms are excellent and Aberdyfi is a lovely spot) then you will save some driving that day.

Day 4 - this adds 45 minutes onto your drive to Tenby on day 4. However, if you stay in Tenby this will save an hour drive to Mumbles (Tenby House Hotel is good, Bay of Bengal Indian restaurant is excellent).

Day 5 - Switch days 5 & 6. Ashburnham is about 35 minutes from Tenby, Pennard 20 minutes further on and only 10 minutes or so from Mumbles.

Day 6 - Porthcawl and Southerndown. These are 35-40 minutes east of Mumbles, i.e. on the way to Bristol. To drive back to Mumbles seems a waste of time. I don't know what time your flight is on Day 7 but if you have time I would suggest you drive on from Southerndown to Burnham (about 35 minutes (i.e. the same as the drive back to Mumbles)

Day 7 - play Burnham and Berrow (less than 30 minutes from Bristol airport). Fly home.

[Jason McNamara]

Sean, I think Jeff mentioned that Conwy is closed the week he's there.

Ed, thanks for the answer regarding the matted tee.  I guess it gets a lot of shade?

[Ed Tilley]

Sean, I think Jeff mentioned that Conwy is closed the week he's there.

Ed, thanks for the answer regarding the matted tee.  I guess it gets a lot of shade?

When I was there in August, there was a gathering of people (pro, secretary and some turf specialists) by the 13th green / 14th tee talking about the condition of the grass. They were saying that it was very difficult to grow good grass there due to the salt spray from the sea that batters the end of the peninsula in high winds. They did say that Wales had the advantage (?) of a lot of rain to wash the salt away but it was still a major problem.

[Sean_A]

Jason,
It's a constantly moving target.
Day 1
arrive Manchester
play North Wales
Stay -Bull Bay

Day 2
Bull Bay
Nefyn
Stay -Harlech

Day 3
Royal St. David's
Aberdovey
Stay- Aberdovey (Aberystwyth)

Day 4
drive to Tenby
play Tenby
drive to The Mumbles
Stay -The Mumbles  (Tenby)

With all the driving that day(4 hours) the boys get an 18 hole day (I really wanted to throw in Cardigan in which case I'd stay at the places in parenthesese (and flip day 5 and 6 to catch Asburnham on the way in), but it's too much.

Day 5
Royal Portcawl
Southerndown
Stay -The Mumbles

Day 6
Ashburnham
Pennard
Stay-The Mumbles

Day 7 -fly out Bristol

10 rounds, 6  days, I'm slipping
killing me to miss Cardigan, but 3 nights in the same hotel + an 18 hole day in the middle will help morale
 

 

Bl**dy hell Jeff - you're a braver man than me. I have a few suggestions to cut down on driving.

Day 3 - Aberdovey (or Aberdyfi if you want to be pedantic) to Aberystwyth is abouth a 45 minute drive, slightly less than the drive from Tenby to Mumbles (Swansea). If you stay in Aberdyfi (both The Dovey Inn and Penhelig Arms are excellent and Aberdyfi is a lovely spot) then you will save some driving that day.

Day 4 - this adds 45 minutes onto your drive to Tenby on day 4. However, if you stay in Tenby this will save an hour drive to Mumbles (Tenby House Hotel is good, Bay of Bengal Indian restaurant is excellent).

Day 5 - Switch days 5 & 6. Ashburnham is about 35 minutes from Tenby, Pennard 20 minutes further on and only 10 minutes or so from Mumbles.

Day 6 - Porthcawl and Southerndown. These are 35-40 minutes east of Mumbles, i.e. on the way to Bristol. To drive back to Mumbles seems a waste of time. I don't know what time your flight is on Day 7 but if you have time I would suggest you drive on from Southerndown to Burnham (about 35 minutes (i.e. the same as the drive back to Mumbles)

Day 7 - play Burnham and Berrow (less than 30 minutes from Bristol airport). Fly home.

Ed

I don't know which helicopter company you use, but if you can get from Ashburnham to Pennard in 20 minutes - more power to ya.  I think the trip is more like 35 (or more) minutes on a decent run.  It has to be at least 20 miles on some crap roads.  As you say, its 10 minutes just to get to Mumbles from Pennard.  

You are right about cutting down the windshield time by stopping in different places.

Ciao

[Ed Tilley]

Sean,

You're probably right - my mistake. However, it doesn't change the fact that Ashburnham is on the way from Tenby to Pennard / Mumbles and to play it en route is the sensible option.

All distances and driving times can be checked on www.theaa.com

Per the AA

Aberdyfi - Aberystwyth  45 minutes (at least I got one right)
Aberdyfi - Tenby 2 hours 36 minutes
Aberystwyth - Tenby 1hour 53 minutes
Tenby - Ashburnham 1 hour 4 minutes
Ashburnham - Pennard 41 minutes
Pennard - Mumbles 14 minutes
Mumbles - Porthcawl 46 minutes
Porthcawl - Burnham 1 hour 38 minutes (bit wrong on this one!)
Burnham - Bristol Airport 32 minutes
Mumbles - Bristol airport 1 hour 52 minutes

Ed

[jeffwarne]

Jason,
It's a constantly moving target.
Day 1
arrive Manchester
play North Wales
Stay -Bull Bay

Day 2
Bull Bay
Nefyn
Stay -Harlech

Day 3
Royal St. David's
Aberdovey
Stay- Aberdovey (Aberystwyth)

Day 4
drive to Tenby
play Tenby
drive to The Mumbles
Stay -The Mumbles  (Tenby)

With all the driving that day(4 hours) the boys get an 18 hole day (I really wanted to throw in Cardigan in which case I'd stay at the places in parenthesese (and flip day 5 and 6 to catch Asburnham on the way in), but it's too much.

Day 5
Royal Portcawl
Southerndown
Stay -The Mumbles

Day 6
Ashburnham
Pennard
Stay-The Mumbles

Day 7 -fly out Bristol

10 rounds, 6  days, I'm slipping
killing me to miss Cardigan, but 3 nights in the same hotel + an 18 hole day in the middle will help morale
 

 

Bl**dy hell Jeff - you're a braver man than me. I have a few suggestions to cut down on driving.

Day 3 - Aberdovey (or Aberdyfi if you want to be pedantic) to Aberystwyth is abouth a 45 minute drive, slightly less than the drive from Tenby to Mumbles (Swansea). If you stay in Aberdyfi (both The Dovey Inn and Penhelig Arms are excellent and Aberdyfi is a lovely spot) then you will save some driving that day.

Day 4 - this adds 45 minutes onto your drive to Tenby on day 4. However, if you stay in Tenby this will save an hour drive to Mumbles (Tenby House Hotel is good, Bay of Bengal Indian restaurant is excellent).

Day 5 - Switch days 5 & 6. Ashburnham is about 35 minutes from Tenby, Pennard 20 minutes further on and only 10 minutes or so from Mumbles.

Day 6 - Porthcawl and Southerndown. These are 35-40 minutes east of Mumbles, i.e. on the way to Bristol. To drive back to Mumbles seems a waste of time. I don't know what time your flight is on Day 7 but if you have time I would suggest you drive on from Southerndown to Burnham (about 35 minutes (i.e. the same as the drive back to Mumbles)

Day 7 - play Burnham and Berrow (less than 30 minutes from Bristol airport). Fly home.

Sean, Ed,
Thanks for all your consideration.
Believe it or not, all of this has been thought out at length.
MULTIPLE factors exist, not the least of which is a group of 6 golfers that enjoy a good time in the evenings (enter -The Mumbles) and I'm trying to not change beds every night.

I think there may be some confusion. The towns in parentheses indicate where we would stay if I try to throw in Cardigan (which I don't think we will for reasons listed above)
So I will be staying in Aberdovey if I nix Cardigan.

I am consider staying in Tenby and somewhere east of the airport (by switching day 5 and 6-which were originally that way)
 Switching day 5 and 6 would mean 6 different hotels in 6 nights which although cuts down on driving time, I've found it INCREASES actual time and STRESS by packing and unpacking
checking in,checking out, figuring out where to eat, drink etc.
Ed's ADJUSTED driving times (which are even greater if you measure to the ACTUAL course -not the town-using UKGOLF website) indicate the time saved is not always what it seems.

Also, and probably most importantly, we will be in a 12 passenger coach with a driver so a 45 drive or so is a mobile party, email check, sleep, stretch,whatever.

I've done 2 of these trips annually for 10+ years and used to do 6-7 one night stands with a rental car and while it saves driving time, there can be logistical issues every time you check in, go to eat etc. Also, if you have a base and a guy has a particularly BIG night,or is just plain worn out, he can miss a round (COSTLY-but could happen) and not be left a town behind .

Can't play last day at Burnham and Barrrow (10:30 flight all there is) besides I played it last fall the day before we left from Devon and Cornwall.

The reason we probably won't stay in Tenby is Tenby is going to fall on a day where we drive from Aberdovey (2 1/2 hours) and then drive to The Mumbles. I'd be twiddling my thumbs in Tenby from 4 o'clock on and could setting up base in The Mumbles. (The logic being it's a moving day anyway) It's a little closer from The Mumbles to Ashburnham than it is from Tenby -making an easy 36 hole day with Pennard the next day if I switch Day 5 and 6)

It looks like Friday will be day 6 so I was trying to stay in The Mumbles to give the boys a good pub crawl (hence the backtracking from Porthcawl and Southerndown)
I switched day 5 and 6 so it wouldn't be so obvious to them
that we were backtracking to Ashburnham and then after Porthcawl, but can always switch it back

Originally we were to be in The Mumbles over the weekend but tee time logistics (believe it or not up north during the week -not weekend times-shifted everything up-which is great for golf, not so good for the pubs)

It is a full service operation  

[Paul_Turner]

As Sean suggests...don't miss Tenby,  some wicked greens there.

It's about 12 years since I played P&K but I didn't think the front 9 was at all bad.  Well bunkered for sure.  From a hazy memory,  the dud holes were 10 and 18.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
If I play Hoylake then I can't tell my wife "there's a whole area in England that I've never played"
Besides my guys will have heard of it and that takes all the fun out.
.....and I just had to add a day and change everything to include Bull Bay and Cardigan

Well then plan your next trip there!  Hoylake, Wallasey, Birkdale, Formby.........lot of great golf in that part of England.

[Matt_Ward]

Jeff:

P & K is no great shakes -- especially the front side. Although I do like the downhill 2nd and the manner by which it moves from left-to-right although the land is pitched to the left. Great driving hole and very easily misunderstood.

The dunes holes on the back side are what makes a visit there special. I do agree w Paul T that #10 and #18 aren't really special either. In sum -- if time is pressing P & K is only worth a show if you've got the urge to play it. I'd say skip it.

One other thought -- there's no real practice area at Tenby to sufficiently warm-up and that's what makes the first four holes there even more demanding.

[jeffwarne]

Well the itinerary just got easier as I added a day (and Cardigan), as well as staying at the dormy house at Royal Porthcawl-to reduce driving time.
I had a committment to lodging a couple days in The Mumbles but by adding the day I can honor that and still not have to backtrack.

And I might get a second round at Pennard (close enough to The Mumbles that the faint of heart can rest while I slip away.)

It's quite sequential now-It has become a full time job.

Bill,
That's my next fall trip

[jeffwarne]

Matt,
I "warm up" a bit differently than most-particularly in the UK.
I find the "ranges" the best in the world.

Our group has never hit a practice ball in the UK.
I used to take two of my assistants over every year and we counted up over 3 trips (30 courses) X 3 players= 90 first tee shots, only 1 shot had been really bad. My first assistant flat out topped one in a downpour after an extended "lunch" at Spanish Point in Ireland.

[Ed Tilley]

Well the itinerary just got easier as I added a day (and Cardigan), as well as staying at the dormy house at Royal Porthcawl-to reduce driving time.
I had a committment to lodging a couple days in The Mumbles but by adding the day I can honor that and still not have to backtrack.

And I might get a second round at Pennard (close enough to The Mumbles that the faint of heart can rest while I slip away.)

It's quite sequential now-It has become a full time job.

Bill,
That's my next fall trip

Jeff,

I really would recommend staying in Aberdovey. The Dovey Inn is unanimously regarded by my golfing group (6 guys who enjoy a good time in the evenings) as the best place we've stayed at. Not the best hotel but it's clean, reasonably priced, good but not expensive food, and a really lively bar. I've also heard really good things about the Penhelig Arms.

That said, you can't really go wrong with The Mumbles.

Ed

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Thanks everybody for your insight!!!  Looks like I should try and steer the group to Hoylake or Wallasey to start our trip...

[tlavin]

Here's my secret shame:  I've never played in the United Kingdom or Ireland.   I've had many invitations, but I still haven't managed to pull it off.  I am making a New Year's resolution to get to two places next year: Royal Dornoch and Pennard.  And hopefully a course with gorse in between...Wales looks very inviting indeed.

[ed_getka]

Wayne,
   Have fun anticipating the upcoming trip. I haven't been to Wales, but it sounds like the treehouse  has you taken care of.
   I guess  the twins are sleeping through the night these days.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Conwy - I'm a member, so if anyone wants a game I can host you - if I'm free. It's flat - it used to have big dunes but it lost them to military camps in two world wars. It's long from the blue tees ca 7000 yards, but in a wind it's murder from those tees. It's not great architecture but it's unforgiving. it's a busy course.

North Wales is gloriously old fashioned with a number of blind shots and holes. It's fairly short and won't overpower you if you are jet lagged.

Nefyn is a curate's egg. You play it for the peninsula holes, which are spectacularly located, but also quite mad. Much of the rest of the course is a disappointment and the condition can leave a lot to be desired. You play it to take the photos to show the folks back home, not for its architecture.

Bull Bay is whacky - nob to nob stuff. It's fun golf - don't try to keep a card going. There are a couple of naff holes on the back nine (not Fowler, I assume) but most of the rest of the course more than makes up for this. However, you are not on the way to or from anywhere, so you will have made a detour to get there. It certainly won't break the bank.

Of the other courses in the north west of Wales, don't bother with Pwllheli - it has a few good links holes, but the rest is tame. You might consider Porthmadoc, which has some pretty good links holes on the back nine. If Abersoch were still a 9-hole course I would recommend it, but the new holes making it up to 18 are dull meadowland.

Personally I would include Royal St David's - I don't see that a course is bad because it is flat. It is actually very demanding and a good test of golf. True, they didn't exploit the dunes as much as they might have, but it's not a bad effort for a boomerang-throwing Australian and a man who didn't play golf.  It's usually in exemplary condition.

Same comments really about Aberdovey - some of those flat holes are quite testing enough for me, thank you. Again, the greens are usually some of the best in Wales.

Of the South Wales courses Pennard and Tenby are the real swingers, great fun. I personally adore Southerndown. They've made some alterations to R Porthcawl, including a completely new fairway on one hole. The first par 5 is now over 600 yards long up hill! I love the dunes holes at Pyle & Kenfig, but there are too few of them. It's rather like the story at harlech and Aberdovey. I found Ashburnham disappointing. There are some difficult holes, but it's all played in someone's garden with ne'er a sight of the sea.  

Get in touch with the Welsh Tourist Board and get a copy of Golf as it should be, their brochure. It usually has some ravishing photos.

[Bill_McBride]

They've made some alterations to R Porthcawl, including a completely new fairway on one hole. The first par 5 is now over 600 yards long up hill!

The club's website (www.royalporthcawl.com) shows par 5 #5 as 611 yards from the championship tee versus 486 from the medal tee which is right next to the par 3 #4 green.  That's a 125 yard walk back to the tee!  No fun.    That hole is not only uphill, but the entire left side is OB and the green is hard by the OB stone wall at the top of the hill.  That is truly a daunting par 5 from those tips.

Here's the green at #4, Porthcawl has beautiful revetted bunkers:



Here's the third green, on the third of the starting holes that parallel the sea.  One of the cool things about Royal Porthcawl is that you can see the ocean from every hole.

[Wayne Wiggins, Jr.]

Wayne,
   Have fun anticipating the upcoming trip. I haven't been to Wales, but it sounds like the treehouse  has you taken care of.
   I guess  the twins are sleeping through the night these days.

Ed -

I'm definitely excited!  And, with the encouragement of the treehouse, I'm thinking about trying to get my group to consider playing Hoylake, Wallasey, or Delamere Forest as our first stop.  And then play Conwy on Day 2 which would knock the Nefyn & District or Machynys out of the rota.

I've heard (read) others reiterate what Mark Rowlinson said aboud N&D, that the holes on the peninsula are absolutely essential for the photo-ops to be shared with those back at home, however the rest of the course is slightly disappointing and usually not in top condition.  Frankly, I could care less, and imagine my entourage would be thrilled with N&D.

It just means I'm going to have to go back.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Hoylake is obviously not cheap and Wallasey put its prices up considerably when the Open came to Hoylake. You might well have to pay up front in advance and if your plane is late you lose your money. Delamere generally doesn't need to be booked in advance. On a normal day it is very quiet and you can just turn up, pay your [much lower] green fee and go straight out. However, you would need to check in advance that they don't have something on such as a county match that would preclude your playing. If you found yourselves really stuck - plane late, Delamere full - then I could offer other suggestions for places to play on the way down to North Wales such as Holywell, 800 feet up but it plays like a links - quirky, basic golf but great fun. It's just off the A55 North Wales coast road. It is on the former site of a lead mine, so the ground is very uneven, you get few bunkers, but the greens are cunningly raised up, sheep roam the place and it is an open heath with pedestrians and cars crossing occasionally - golf as it used to be played at St A's and Blackheath. Have a look at some of the photos (especially the 15th) on http://www.holywellgc.co.uk/
Some great swings there! (Try the pictures of the 17th, for instance).

There are other options if you found yourselves getting down to North Wales in the evening - there's a decent little 9-holer at Penmaenmawr, just beyond Conwy which might do for a gentle stretch and a bit of fresh air. The scenery is great. http://www.pengolf.co.uk/

Or there's a 9-holer, Old Colwyn, which isn't a great course (Braid) but it is inexpensive and its hills will get the stiffness out of the system. Great views, too. http://www.oldcolwyngolfclub.co.uk/index.htm It'll set you back £12.

And there are other options - make sure you have my phone number in case your travel plans are seriously upset.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

By the way there are some photos of Bull Bay on Frank Pont's excellent web site: http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Pages/wales.html
There are even close ups of the indefatigable Tommy Williamsen - a double bonus.

[jeffwarne]

Final golf itinerary in-tee times made.
As always many tee time and availability logistics made this a trying exercise.

Thanks to all who helped. Particularly, Mark Rowlinson's incredible website and UK golf website as well as comments on this thread.
Sean Arble, who hopefully can find a way to join us.Tom Dunne, Ed Tilley etc.

Comments and suggestions welcome.
Any places there are question marks (?) please feel free to chime in with a recomendation.

Depart Newark 10 pm Monday June 2

Day 1 -Tuesday June 3
Arrive Manchester 10 am
Play North Wales 2:10
Dinner- Conwy(Groes Inn)
Stay -Bull Bay- (Trecastle Hotel)

Day 2  Wednesday---tough day
Bull Bay 9:10
Nefyn  3:15
Dinner/Stay  Harlech  (Y Branwyn Hotel)

Day 3  Thursday
Royal St. David's 9:10
Aberdovey 3:44
Dinner/Stay  Aberdovey (Dovey Inn ?)

Day 4  Friday
Drive to Cardigan
Cardigan 12:00
Drive to Tenby
Dinner/Stay Tenby (??)

Day 5  Saturday
Tenby 9:30
Pennard 4:00
Dinner ()
Stay -The Mumbles  (Tides Reach Guesthouse)

Day 6  Sunday
Ashburnham 10:00
Pennard -(possibly again) 4:00ish
Dinner ()
Stay- The Mumbles (Tides Reach Guesthouse)

Day 7 Monday
Southerndown 10:00
Royal Porthcawl 3:30
Dinner/Stay- (Royal Porthcawl Dormy house)

Day 8  Tuesday June 10
Depart Bristol 10:30 flight

Thanks again-I hope others have found this exercise helpful
I think Mark Rowlinson should not be allowed to post anymore.
It's about to cost me my job

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