[Tommy_Naccarato]

I'm going to have to ask those who know this course to refrain from letting the cat out of the bag.

We are going to take a diffrent twist on this one. Critique the bunker as before, but instead of assigining it a number rating, how do you visualize this bunker in it's scheme? (It's placement)

[Brian Phillips]

Sorry Tommy I can't get my head around this one at all.  I can't see the bunker, can't imagine where it should be or it's purpose.  Sorry mate!

Brian

[TEPaul]

Brian, me boy, weren't you one of the ones who asked us to use our imaginations on these photos?

I have no idea either how this particular bunker sets up to the line of play or the hole or anything else in that context. But imagine the play coming from the left of even the right or even as a crossbunker guarding a blind shot dead ahead into that darkness!

Or maybe some other way--in any case, that's a great looking bunker! The face of that bunker looks like it was made by time and tide and maintained by rabbits or sheep! I love it!

[A Clay Man]

I too am having trouble w/ this. It appears to be a left side fairway bunker. I particularly like the scruffy ground of the natural surrounds. I don't care for the attempt to mimic the swale in the fairway. It looks too manufactured for it to be a natural grassy noll. I suppose that my opinion would change from a different angle but from this pic if it is a fairway bunker it seems forced.
just MHO

[Peter Galea]

Man, is that sand WHITE, or what?

[BillV]

looks RAW

What's around it had better be also.

Other than the small blow out, the bunkers themselves are pretty ordinary, the ridge in between doesn't look too natural especially in front of the scruff adjacent to the (far?) side of the bunker.

Real mixed bag.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Tommy,

Where ever it is, one would seem to be far better off IN THE BUNKER, rather than what surrounds the bunker, which seems to penal for fairway bunkers on a medium to long hole.

[ed_getka]

Tommy,
 I can't tell a thing about placement from this photo. The unmaintained side of the bunkers look good, but the fairway? side is too sterile looking and the transition from fairway to uncut grass between the bunkers is too abrupt and is jarring to the eye. I too think the mound between the bunkers looks unnatural compared to the surrounding ground.

[Craig Disher]

The sand-filled divots appear to be parallel with the bunkers so I guess the bunkers are on the side of a fairway - could be left or right, more likely left because of the high faces on the right sides of the bunkers. As far as appearance goes, I don't like the abrupt transition between the perfect condition of the fairway and the raw-looking bunker surrounds. The rough surrounding the bunker looks so penal that I'd be praying for my ball to get into the sand. If the rough is as tough as it appears, I think the bunkers are redundant as hazards. Small, irregular mounds would be just as effective and would look quite natural. I also wonder how a ball would find its way into either hazard except on the fly. The fairway slopes away from them and the high ridge between the bunkers isolates the second.

[A Clay Man]

Tommy- I was hoping before we get to far away from them. Could you please add your observations to the previous case studies and then tell us where the picture is from? I just have such a curious mind... I want to know.

[RJ_Daley]

It looks natural to me.  It could be a border of fairway up against coastal dunesland and sea grasses anywhere from the Atlantic to Pacific or Gulf of Mexico.  I see the fairway turf rolls as natural and turf planted right up into the dunes with a little shaping or edging on the fairway side and the dunesland allowing to spread forth in background.  It could be along sea coast side of the inward holes of Ocean course at Kiawah (although I think there is cart path along most of that border with the fairways) The white sand makes me think of gulf coast dunes in panhandle of FL...  Although the sand isn't as white, there are fairway borders next to native blowout areas at Sand Hills that this could be.  Whether the work is good or not is not determinable in my view since we can't see any of the hole play out in context.  

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tommy,
They don't really look necessary with all the other material around the area. I like that little bare knob, about center in the photo. Expose more sand like this, even on flattish areas, and lose the bunkers. If they are used for depth perception and orientation from the tee, the same effect could be achieved by exposing more sand in these grassy areas with a nicer transition from fwy to rough as a bonus. I feel the same way even if they are used laterally or diagonally.

[TEPaul]

BillV:

You kill me! You said the ridge in between doesn't look too natural particularly in front of the scruff adjacent to the (far) side of the bunker. That might be because the ridge in between is fairway and the scruff on either side adjacent to the far side of the bunker is anything but--looks like some pretty interesting random rough in fact! And it looks like that fairway filters into that bunkering quite easily probably magnifying the effect and size of this bunkering to a degree!

I could be wrong but this hole must be moving directly from the left of the photo to the right or maybe in the opposite direction but I doubt that as left to right looks like a basic slight natural incline (a good natural position for bunkering). And aren't those not little divot marks I see there probably going left to right?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Adam,
Revelation of origin of all the bunkers in question will come at a later time. Soon, but not just yet!:)

My thoughts on this bunker is very similar to Bill's, a very mixed bag. "Super Pete"--(About as close as you can get to a golf course superintendent Superhero) hits it right on the head too with the color of the sand, which would make a round of golf with Tony Montana, a two week experience. In fact, when picking out the photo, I was surprized to see some interesting shaping going on that I hadn't seen before in this photo and in person. (I must have been blinded by all of that white sand!)

The shaping looks to be pretty good, but the one thing that confounds me in all of it is that terrain as this, you need very scraggy, unkept, ever-changing outlines. That is the giveaway that these aren't natural, They are totally man-made. The rough surrounding areas had them on the right track, but they lost it with the bunkers themselves.

There is a lot more to add about these bunkers later, because they are an experiment of sorts, that isn't be well received.

Oh Yeah, I forgot to eliminate the divots too, so it gives that portion of the post away!

[RJ_Daley]

Spanish Bay, RTJjr!

It is not possible to determine if the edge is manufactured or natural from a swath of fairway edge the is only about 10-15 yards wide.  One really needs to see the line all the way from teeing area to green.  

[A_Clay_Man]

If your talking Monterey peninsula Spanish Bay, No way! There is only one decent natural bunker out there and it is on the front left of the 16th hole a one shoter. the only problem is it has been covered with KK for a couple of years now.

 

[TEPaul]

CDisher;

I hadn't noticed your post about the way this hole goes and some of the things you said about it when I wrote mine. Proves that great minds think alike, for now!

TommyN and BillV:

These threads on these bunkers are excellent topics, in my opinion. For me it's starting to prove a couple of things. 1/ I dont't know what I'm talking about and probably have a great deal more to learn than I thought I did and/or, 2/ Some of the guys that I always thought--thought like me, don't much at all!

No matter really, but I'm starting to wonder what I know or think anymore!

[Jim_Kennedy]

TEPaul,
If you look at these bunkers and go to the core of what you really know than I think you will come up with answer.

I don't know much but I will hang one out there: Their use is superflous in the terrain, either natural or man-made, that surrounds them.  

[TEPaul]

JimK:

"Their use is superflous in the terrain, either natural or manmade, that surrounds them".

So you're saying those bunkers are superfluous in any case no matter what the terrain is that surrounds them? You must be saying that because none of us can see the terrain that surrounds them. And what is it about those bunkers that makes you say that?

[Jim_Kennedy]

TEPaul,
In my earlier post I said that "they don't really look necessary with all the other material around the area. I like that little bare knob, about center in the photo. Expose more sand like this, even on the flattish areas, and lose the bunkers".
Part of what I am saying is due to lack of seeing what is around them. The other part has to do with what can be seen. Look how ragged the area looks and the flow of the hillocks. That's nice to my eye. There seems to be enough trouble there without the addition of these bunkers and just scratching up the surface would reveal enough sand to achieve the same result. No maintenance either.
Those bunkers and that style of course appeal to me more than most others but I seriously believe it's a bit of overuse, given what we can see in the photo.

[TEPaul]

JimK:

Thanks! I don't know, I like what I can see so far in this photo!

[Bill_Overdorf]

Tommy N:
Although I have absolutely no idea re the location of this bunker complex, I shall not hesitate to state my acclaim for the artistry involved with its creation and the sensitivity with which it's presented. I would feel damn proud to be credited with this product. The revelation of its identity will be highly interesting.

Doesn't this take us back to the question of the theme of who is important -  the art or the artist? The fact cannot be denied that without the artist the art would not exist.  

All the best to all of you for the new year.

Bill

[RT (Guest)]

Tommy,

are those bunkers located on the left side 6th fairway of the course I am thinking of, on the east coast?  tell me it isn't so with the white sand.

RT

[TEPaul]

Sand is too white, is it? Check out GeoffShac's Cypress Point book and the extraordinary photographs of Mackenzie playing  the course just after opening! The course looks stunningly beautiful but I can almost feel Alister saying; "This looks great but where did this super white sand come from?"

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

I'm not too concerned with the white sand, not knowing where the course is located and the type of sand that is common to the area (if sand is in fact naturally found there), its hard to criticize it. The irregular edge away from the playing surface is nice, the edge closest along the fairway looks pretty regular and clean. The shaping of the fairway which is carried into the bunkers is pretty standard fair and not too exciting and not too natural. Overall a mixed bag.

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