[Seth Berliner]

I only played one new private that opened in 2007 - a course called Ravenna just southwest of Denver. A Jay Morrish course. Did any of you magazine panelists even play it? Not sure that it could keep up with the likes of Sebonack or CGC, but I'd be interested in the opinions of those who rank.

Kirk,
Not sure when Ravenna opened but I'm guessing it will be a candidate next year. I remember you had posted about it before but I don't remember seeing it on our list. I'd be interested in playing it next summer if I get a chance to head up that way.

Matt,
I agree that there's an effect on who plays what course, there's not many guys that have the opportunity to travel to all the top contenders in any one year. I think Ron W. alluded to that in his accompanying article being discussed on the other thread. Courses in some cases tend to take awhile to find their place once enough raters have visited. With only 10 raters, most of whom may not see all other contenders, one or two poor ballots can drastically sway a course's placement without a doubt.

That said, there's more to it than "pure chance." We all probably can name courses we think should have been higher or lower.

Gents,

The Golf Club at Ravenna opened June 2nd, too late to be included in the 2007 rankings.

Seth

[Greg McMullin]

Guys, can anyone tell me if guests are allowed to tee it up from the tips or are these tees reserved for the members? Not a course under 7000 yds. oooouuuuwwwwwwwwww What about the best 8000 yd couses under $100K?

www.golfdigest.com[/url]

1. SEBONACK G.C. • Southampton, N.Y. • Yards 7,481 • Par 72 • Designers: Jack Nicklaus and Tom Doak • Initiation Fee: $650,000-PLUS • sebonack.com
2. SNAKE RIVER SPORTING C. • Jackson Hole, Wyo. • Yards 7,533 • Par 72 • Tom Weiskopf • Fee: $150,000 • snakeriversportingclub.com
3. MOUNTAINTOP GOLF & LAKE C. • Cashiers, N.C. • Yards 7,127 • Par 70 • Tom Fazio • Fee: $100,000 • mountaintopgolfclub.com  
4. PRONGHORN (TOM FAZIO CSE.) • Bend, Ore. • Yards 7,447 • Par 72 • Tom Fazio • Fee: $100,000 • pronghornclub.com
5. BAYONNE G.C. • Bayonne, N.J. • Yards 7,120 • Par 71 • Eric Bergstol • Fee: $200,000 • bayonnegolfclub.com
6. COLORADO G.C. • Parker, Colo. • Yards 7,604 • Par 72 • Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw • Fee: $95,000 • coloradogolfclub.com
7. LIBERTY NATIONAL G.C. • Jersey City, N.J. • Yards 7,458 • Par 72 • Bob Cupp and Tom Kite • Fee: undisclosed • libertynationalgc.com  
8. THE C. AT OLDE STONE • Alvaton, Ky. • Yards 7,372 • Par 72 • Arthur Hills and Drew Rogers • Fee: $60,000 corporate; $25,000 individual • olde-stone.com
9. THE MADISON C. • La Quinta, Calif. • Yards 7,426 • Par 72 • Tom Fazio • Fee: undisclosed • madisonclubca.com
10. BOOT RANCH • Fredericksburg, Tex. • Yards 7,135 • Par 71 • Hal Sutton • Fee: $100,000 • bootranch.com

[Tom_Doak]

Greg:

I feel your pain.  I'm not really happy that the course I co-designed is nearly 7500 yards, but I got outvoted 2 to 1 on that part.

I think this sets a horrible precedent.  I've recently done a plan for a new course that would be 6700 yards from the back (par 70) which is all they should ever need ... but I'm sure the client will tell me it HAS to be longer in order to win awards, stand the test of time, or whatever.  I know what he'll really be saying is that he can't sell expensive memberships without a scorecard that shows how manly the members are (even though most of them will never play the course from all the way back), but when you look at a list like this, how do you argue.

I'm curious -- for the GOLF DIGEST panelists out there -- did any of you play a high-end private course this year that was UNDER 7,000 yards from the back tees?

[Greg McMullin]

Tom, I'd LOVE to tee it up from 7500 yards as long as the fairways were very very wide, the collection mounds on the sides of the fairways propelled the ball forward say 50-75 yds, the fairways are as hard as a parking lot, the greens are receptive to my wedge shots and the wind is behind me on every hole. After a round like this I might even feel like a real golfer.

[PCCraig]

I think it is safe to say that private golf memberships are starting to reflect current economics in the United States. The difference wealth b/w the richest classes and the lowest is getting wider.

However with great great pieces of land comes the cost of that land...I would say it is worth it.

[Andy Troeger]

Tom,
Colorado GC was the only high-end new private club I saw this year and it was 7600 yards. We-Ko-Pa Saguaro I think measured around 7000 or maybe just under on the public side. The Broadmoor Mountain's back nine was over 4000 yards! The Conservatory at Hammock Beach is close to 7800 yards on the coast of Florida.

I suppose the yardages in the mountains don't mean as much, but its still too long for me!

[Michael Robin]

TD-

The answer to your question is no. Not many clients out there who seem to want or have sites that will lend themselves to a challenging course under 7000 from the back. Seems to me that for today's game you need sites that have built-in natural governers such as wind(Pacific and Barnbougle) or terrain(Stone Eagle) that will give the scorecard a chance to read less than 7000.

How long does Old Macdonald look to be?

P.S.  The twins arrived! Mackenzie and Skylar. Couldn't sneek the correct spelling past my wife

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