Stone Eagle

[Jon Spaulding]

Good thread....great course. SE is certainly attains one of the highest levels of artistry, engineering.....and shot values!

Here are some "during" photos from the site. When we got the inquiry for the rental screening equipment, the prospect of a Doak design, on that site, close to home was quite exciting. Of course this was tempered by having to explain to co-workers why a Doak design might be better than a Ted Robinson one.....of course after they saw the finished product it all made sense.




After from similar angle

[Tom_Doak]

Lou:

The Rawls Course was designed with the entire university community in mind, but they did also want a course which could host an NCAA Championship.  They've actually been having some discussions about that possibility recently; I just got a message about a couple of small changes that have been proposed toward that goal.

But, everybody says they want a course which is challenging for great players and playable for everybody ... we have to listen carefully to figure out which is their first priority.

[rjsimper]

Love the "Spaulding" sticker

Those are great shots, Jon - and as TD said, you really can't grasp the elevation and dramatic nature of the site - either in the before pics (Obv I was not there to see the real before) or in the after pics, which all of those who have played it know tame it by a factor of many.

[Bart Bradley]

After playing the Rawls course, I can wholeheartedly say the course hits the mark on this account...I am a 9 handicapper, my Lubbock buddy about the same...we find it fun and challenging..not frustratingly hard like some and yet, one can easily see that course setup could allow the course to test even the best players and cause them to weigh options....all this on perhaps the most plain piece of property (pre-construction) imaginable.

Bart

[Jon Spaulding]

Love the "Spaulding" sticker

Those are great shots, Jon - and as TD said, you really can't grasp the elevation and dramatic nature of the site - either in the before pics (Obv I was not there to see the real before) or in the after pics, which all of those who have played it know tame it by a factor of many.

RS, our stuff is just like GCA; when you make it..... you get to put your name on it .....good, bad or ugly. I just had to plug that photo in for some shameless marketing.

[Bill Brightly]

I think the pictures are stunning.

Is there an arroyo running through the course that had to be designed around?

[Matt Kardash]

Man, those fairways are WIDE. The thought of how long it would take to cut those fairways is enough to give me nightmares.

[John Kirk]

The subject of Stone Eagle came up twice last week, in separate conversations, neither associated with GolfClubAtlas.  

One conversation was a second hand story about someone who heard "they are going to have to rework about nine of the greens", or something to that effect.  This prompted me to write a long e-mail to a friend's friend (who I also know well), explaining in detail the general philosophy of a wide course with severe greens, which in turn caused me a little interpersonal grief for sharing what my first friend told me.

I called the Club, and there are some concerns (and complaints) about the severity of the putting greens.  But the only green being considered for modification is the first green, since the middle pin position is small and very tough.  They might ask Tom to push the green out to the right a bit.

I just don't get it.  The course is not that tough, the greens are not that wild, and the place is just gorgeous.  Players must worry about score a lot more than they think about having fun playing the game.  Stone Eagle's greens don't even come close to inspiring the fear that Crystal Downs's greens do.  I'm very biased, but I rank the total experience of playing golf there very highly.  Beautiful views, great shots to play, sublime restaurant after your round - it's very exciting, as long as you aren't trying to play your third round of golf in 36 hours when it's 110 outside.  There are very few places I'd rather be.  And most of my friends who play there with me feel the same.

Bill B.,

I wouldn't say one arroyo.  Tom D. could answer this better, but I recall a few (maybe 3 or 4) crevices where the water would work its way down the hill.

Jon,

It's great to see those construction photos.  You can tell it's going to be great.  It's hillier than it looks.

[Joe Perches]

a second hand story about someone who heard "they are going to have to rework about nine of the greens", or something to that effect.  This prompted me to write a long e-mail to a friend's friend (who I also know well), explaining in detail the general philosophy of a wide course with severe greens, which in turn caused me a little interpersonal grief for sharing what my first friend told me.

Good on you.

I called the Club, and there are some concerns (and complaints) about the severity of the putting greens.  But the only green being considered for modification is the first green, since the middle pin position is small and very tough.  They might ask Tom to push the green out to the right a bit.

I just don't get it.  The course is not that tough, the greens are not that wild, and the place is just gorgeous.

Neither do I.

The greens are generally quite large, also quite good, and the course relatively easy.  I don't understand why members would want to make it easier.  Maybe the philosophy of the members is "I paid a lot, I should score well".  Perhaps that reflect membership more than the design.

[Tom_Doak]

There are three major ravines which still run through the golf course. The biggest one starts up by #10 green and runs alongside #11, through #15, across #14 and #13 and out the bottom.

A second one runs across in front of #8 green, across #3, and alongside #4 (where it has been converted to a water feature) down to the pond which was created by a large dam.

The third one runs alongside #5 and down to the pond.  Note that this ravine actually started to the right of #8 landing area.  The deep bunker in the corner of the dogleg is actually the bottom of the ravine, and the fairway to the left is about twenty feet of fill over the ravine (the back of the bunker is the bank of the ravine, i.e. natural grade).  We could only do this because the catchment area for this ravine was relatively small; most of the water coming off the mountain goes into the second ravine.

[Jon Spaulding]

The subject of Stone Eagle came up twice last week, in separate conversations, neither associated with GolfClubAtlas.  

I called the Club, and there are some concerns (and complaints) about the severity of the putting greens.  But the only green being considered for modification is the first green, since the middle pin position is small and very tough.  They might ask Tom to push the green out to the right a bit.

I just don't get it.  The course is not that tough, the greens are not that wild, and the place is just gorgeous.  Players must worry about score a lot more than they think about having fun playing the game.  Stone Eagle's greens don't even come close to inspiring the fear that Crystal Downs's greens do.  I'm very biased, but I rank the total experience of playing golf there very highly.  Beautiful views, great shots to play, sublime restaurant after your round - it's very exciting, as long as you aren't trying to play your third round of golf in 36 hours when it's 110 outside.  There are very few places I'd rather be.  And most of my friends who play there with me feel the same.

Bill B.,

I wouldn't say one arroyo.  Tom D. could answer this better, but I recall a few (maybe 3 or 4) crevices where the water would work it's way down the hill.

Jon,

It's great to see those construction photos.  You can tell it's going to be great.  It's hillier than it looks.

I saw nothing wrong with the first green when I played the course .

Agree with the "fear" comparison to CD. Also, the greens at SE are not running all that fast on a daily basis. I found them hilly but very reasonable if you hit the ball in a decent spot. If you don't, you at least have a chance to 2-putt with the slower speeds.

The complaints likely originate from those that can't grasp the concept of defending par @ the greensite and the different types of shots that are required.

[Adam Clayman]

Jon, Could you confirm what I think I see in those pictures?

Are those two or three strainers (sieves) you are separating sand from rock?

[Kalen Braley]

I'm curious as to how Stone Eagle fits in with the "best" desert courses as was stated in the other threads.  While my exposure to desert courses is limited to a few here in Utah and Southern Colorado, for those in the know how does this course stack up against a Desert Forest, Black Mesa, etc.

Or is the course in the Mountain Course category?

[Jon Spaulding]

Jon, Could you confirm what I think I see in those pictures?

Are those two or three strainers (sieves) you are separating sand from rock?

AC; the answer is yes. Our little circuit was set up to help the contractor make a 3/8" minus material for tees & greens from the native material. A hopper is fed via loader/end dump, with a 6" grizzly over the top. From there the material is delivered to a 6' wide x 20' long Cedarapids vibrating screen (sieve on steroids) which has woven screen cloth set at different sizes. The bottom deck of the screen has a 3/8" opening. The material is then stockpiled into a plus and a minus pile and delivered to final destination.

[Mike Benham]

Jon, Could you confirm what I think I see in those pictures?

Are those two or three strainers (sieves) you are separating sand from rock?

AC; the answer is yes. Our little circuit was set up to help the contractor make a 3/8" minus material for tees & greens from the native material. A hopper is fed via loader/end dump, with a 6" grizzly over the top. From there the material is delivered to a 6' wide x 20' long Cedarapids vibrating screen (sieve on steroids) which has woven screen cloth set at different sizes. The bottom deck of the screen has a 3/8" opening. The material is then stockpiled into a plus and a minus pile and delivered to final destination.

Jon -

Just love it when you talk technical.  Do your work boots have soft spikes?

[Donal Breasail]

great stuff.I really enjoyed Stone Eagle but in the market it is competing against it certainly does not stand out of the crowd.

[Steve Lapper]

great stuff.I really enjoyed Stone Eagle but in the market it is competing against it certainly does not stand out of the crowd.

I strongly disagree with the above statement! The course is vastly different than all of its nearby competitors. I've had family living in the Desert for over 30 years and over that time, I've played nearly everywhere down there. None of the other higher end (or otherwise) courses have that kind "in-the-hill" drama and few have any sense of connected holes. Instead, most have individually framed holes that aren't necessarily bad, or good, but often repetitious.

Stone Eagle, as an ongoing club, may well suffer from it's iconoclastic nature. If, as some here posture, the club flattens some of those greens, they'll lose a vital part of the course's integrity and enjoyment. I loved the place the few rounds I've played there and would well look forward to playing it again! It works just as is and although many of the resident octogenarians might recoil from TD's heaving design, it is, unfortunately, their loss.

[Donal Breasail]

steve,
as i said i really enjoyed stone eagle and like yourself i have played pretty much every course worth playing in the valley.The coachella valley is a golfers heaven The Quarry,The Vintage,The PGA West Stadium,Mountain Course at Bighorn and the Reserve  are some of my favourites (I could probably add 2 or 3 more) and in my opinion Stone Eagle does not stand out among these courses.

[Jerry Kluger]

There was a recent thread running on Cascata and there was much criticism of what had been done and I think that Stone Eagle is a good example of what can be done without the excesses of Cascata.  There will always be a dramatic contrast between the raw property and the golf course simply because of the green grass, but that doesn't mean that dramatic features have to be added such as trees, ponds, etc., in order to create a positive golfing experience.  There are other desert courses I have seen in Arizona which to me are sort of in between Cascata and Stone Eagle in so far as added features.  I don't think that the added features add to the playing experience, and in many cases can detract from the experience, but much of what is done is there because that is what the property owner wanted.  Personally, I tremendously enjoyed playing Stone Eagle because I love heavily contoured greens and challenging recovery shots.  

[Adam Clayman]

in my opinion Stone Eagle does not stand out among these courses.

Don, Could you please elaborate from an architectural perspective?

[David Stamm]

steve,
as i said i really enjoyed stone eagle and like yourself i have played pretty much every course worth playing in the valley.The coachella valley is a golfers heaven The Quarry,The Vintage,The PGA West Stadium,Mountain Course at Bighorn and the Reserve  are some of my favourites (I could probably add 2 or 3 more) and in my opinion Stone Eagle does not stand out among these courses.

We all have our opinions, but I couldn't disagree more Don. I have to agree with Steve. SE is so different from the rest in the area. The greens being the most prominent feature. It's a combo mountain/desert course that is truly set apart from it's neighbors.