[Ken Fry]

Whether it's around a hazard, O.B., trees, etc., what is the sharpest acceptable angle for a dogleg?  Length of hole, what surrounds the intended playing corridor and elevation change are up to you to specify.

Ken

[Tommy Williamsen]

I would think that for a par four 90 degrees is about the most and leg should dog.  A par five is a different story.  I'm not certain what the maximum able should be but it could be more than 90 degrees.

 

[J_ Crisham]

In my early days i remember the 9th at Alton muny having a dogleg of 110 degrees.  Similar to a boomerang-one of the worst holes ever built. I think Doak had some similar words in his confidential guide. Would encourage anyone to avoid this track!

[Bill Gayne]

I guess you could do a 180 on a par five. I would hate to see the dog that this leg came from.

[Ken Fry]

Bill,

Is that the hole long drive champ Brian Pavlet drove the green on?  It looks like the depiction I saw in a magazine article about his feat a few years ago.

Ken

[Jason Connor]

I guess you could do a 180 on a par five. I would hate to see the dog that this leg came from.

I finally win the ID the hole contest.  That's from Stranz's Royal New Kent!

[Jason Connor]

To me it seems that if you just fail to reach the corner on a par 4's tee shot, it should be possible to work the ball around to get somewhat close to the green.  

For a greater than 90 degree dogleg, you may be left essentially playing (pitching) away from the hole just to get around the corner.  That just seems gimmicky. And what's the point?

I'm ok with a short par 4 with a 90 degree turn.  I can name a few that I've enjoyed.

[Ken Fry]

The purpose of my question is to determine how difficult it is to design a very sharp dogleg and how much architectural talent is needed to find that perfect mixture.

As a player, I find severe doglegs difficult to play, especially playing a course for the first time.  There's a fine line between being challenging and being somewhat silly.

Even if there is a decision off the tee to carry a hazard and be rewarded, anything beyond a 45 degree angle seems difficult to hit with anything less than a really good shot.

For the architects, when do you decide a forced carry or severe dogleg is appropriate and at what point does it become uncomfortable for you to design it?

Ken

[Garland Bayley]

In Gleanings from the Wayside Tillinghast discusses a two shotter with a dogleg angle approximately 160 degrees or so. It is not gimmickry if you allow the short hitter to get around the dogleg, but give the long hitter the best angle as Tillinghast does.

Recently there was a discussion of an 180 degree "dogleg" on this board that was proposed by Kalen. The tour pros that play Riviera #10 by driving over the green and playing back are choosing this option.

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