Backstops

[TEPaul]

"I'm doing my very best, obviously, to trumpet a very under appreciated course called Inniscrone."

Don't lose any sleep over it Joe. Just try to convince yourself that those who pan Inniscrone and call it a Doak 0 and recommend that it should be blown up suffer from either extreme egoistic selfishness or a pretty total lack of imagination.

Do you think you can do that, Joe?    

[Doug Siebert]

The property line backstops Patrick Mucci mentions are not uncommon in the UK.  Think about a hole like Lahinch's Klondyke, which plays with the prevailing wind and often sees golfers playing at the green completely blind.  Makes me wonder if the backstop was there 60 or 70 years ago when few golfers would have been capable of hitting a ball with trajectory required to clear that little mountain while also hitting it far enough to have to worry about the possibility of running through the green.

[Doug Siebert]

One of my favorite types of backstop is one that is angled so you take your best advantage of it by being somewhere other than the hole's centerline.  I really wish I had a few pictures to illustrate this but I'll try to explain.  A newer course that's one of my favorites in the area has a hole that plays about 360, which climbs a very steep hill starting about 50 yards from the green, so you only see the top half of the pin (at best) from the fairway.

The green has two levels, with the left half being several feet higher than the right half.  That bisection is angled so that the longer and further right you hit the ball the better it acts as a perfect backstop for a pin cut in the middle to middle center of the green.  From the center of the fairway it isn't much help.  The fairway widens to probably 60+ yards at this point to encourage people to discover this.  Its a really nifty piece of local knowledge because you sure as heck can't see the two levels of the green from the fairway or the tee, so most people who aren't familiar with the course have no idea why I'm aiming so far right (even into the rough) when the pin is in a position where I can take advantage of it.

There's another fun backstop on that course's 13th, a very long par 5 of 565 into the prevailing wind that's also uphill at the very end.  Its got a simply crazy green that even Doak might find pretty darn wild, and if you get caught out by the false front towards the left edge of the green you face an interesting little chip.

It looks for all the world like the ball runs downhill after you clear the false front, but it is actually pretty level there.  There's a higher tier about 3-4 feet higher that lies behind it, which doesn't look it from that position but is actually so steep that you can use it to roll chips and putts back at the hole -- in fact, it is the only way other than a perfect (and highly risky!) cut flop to get the ball close from that spot!  Very few golfers have the imagination to think of it, and usually learn about it by accident or watching me

The other fun thing about the green is that the false front is fed by a slope that extends pretty far out to the right, beyond the center of the (50 yard wide) green.  There's a real John Kirk worthy moment when you hit a ball at a pin in the center and aren't sure if it quite had the distance because it can take 10-15 seconds after your ball lands on the green for it to gather enough speed to finally appear to where you can see it, and then another 10 seconds as it leaves the green before it finally stops rolling.

Someday I gotta go out to this course just after sunrise and take some pictures where the slopes really stand out.  GCAers would love this course!

[mike_beene]

#8 at Brook Hollow(the water hole par 3) has one.I wonder if that is the original green?With the river changes over the years I am not sure.The next par 3,#10 is a fairly steep green but feels like a backstop.Would you count this as one?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Beene,

No, steep sloped greens don't qualify.

I'm talking about seperate, constructed features behind the putting surface.

AWT seems to have employed them throughout his works.

[Dan Herrmann]

would the area directly behind the green at Merion East #1 be considered a backstop?

[TEPaul]

At this point somethng of a counterpoint should be made even if the clever use of a green backstop is or can be pretty danged cool and imaginative and multi-optional in play.

The counterpoint is Max Behr railing against the commonly used standard on so many green designs as the great Golden Age got rolling of tilting a green in the direction of the oncoming player---eg back to front.

Obviously, that kind of thing can help sheet drainage and is necessary for that reason but seeing as there're four basic directions to do that can anyone deny what that so commonly used technique of tilting greens from back to front at the oncoming golfers was intended to do playability-wise?  

That was Behr's point.

[Mike Hendren]

I believe some backstops were utilized for something other than breaking the ball near property lines.  Specifically, they can visually distort the general slope of the putting surface, particularly a green that slopes downward from the front to the back.  

Flynn used this concept masterfully on the short 8th hole at the Cascades course.  Without adequate spin imparted with a short iron, most tee shots will gravitate to the rear of the green, stopping at the base of a nice backstop which gives the appearance that the putt back toward the tee is downhill when it is in reality uphill.  

It is fascinating to stand behind that green and look at the extent to which it is pushed up.  

Mike

[mike_beene]

Pat,I misread (or in my lazyness) did not read carefully what you meant.I had always thought of a feature within the green.I have never thought to notice backstops behind the green.At least from my perspective,there is still a lot to learn and your taking time to do this thread is an example.Thanks.I do believe that is a backstop behind 18 of the Old Course which once saved an embarassing bladed wedge shot from a stroke and distance penalty.

[Joe Bausch]

I had forgotten about a good backstop green I played yesterday w/ DougB.  Can you guess the hole and course?



I'm going to guess GH did this b/c the hole requires a very long 2nd shot fade and the backstop allows a run-up that is 'hot' to still be good.

[JESII]

At this point somethng of a counterpoint should be made even if the clever use of a green backstop is or can be pretty danged cool and imaginative and multi-optional in play.

The counterpoint is Max Behr railing against the commonly used standard on so many green designs as the great Golden Age got rolling of tilting a green in the direction of the oncoming player---eg back to front.

Obviously, that kind of thing can help sheet drainage and is necessary for that reason but seeing as there're four basic directions to do that can anyone deny what that so commonly used technique of tilting greens from back to front at the oncoming golfers was intended to do playability-wise?  

That was Behr's point.

Playability-wise, I would say a green would have been tilted back towards the player with a favor to one side or the other to dictate the preferred line off the tee...from reading a few quotes on here, I would guess Max Behr would not like that suggestive design feature...

[Scott_Burroughs]

There's a great backstop at Ross's Charles River CC (sorry, I
can't remember the hole).  

Are you thinking of the par 5 16th?  That one came to mind
immediately for me.  The great par 3, 11th also has a bit of
this feature.

Partick mentioned several AWT courses have this feature.  
One AWT green off the top of my head with this feature is
the par 4 15th at Five Farms.