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Tommy Williamsen

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A template hole whose time is over
« on: November 25, 2007, 05:27:30 PM »
I have been watching the World Cup from China.  Surprise the 18th hole is a 460 yard cape hole doglegging left.  I seems I have seen one before.  Can't we come up with something new?  Are you as weary of them as I am?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 06:04:52 PM by Tommy Williamsen »
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Jason Connor

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Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2007, 05:54:28 PM »
I'm just tired of them as the 18th hole.

And I assume you meant 460. 160 isn't much of a dogleg!
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2007, 06:05:57 PM »
Quote from: Jason Connor on November 25, 2007, 05:54:28 PM
I'm just tired of them as the 18th hole.

And I assume you meant 460. 160 isn't much of a dogleg!

You are right I was thinking of 460.  However, for some of us 160 may indeed be long enough to be a dogleg.
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jay Flemma

Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2007, 07:07:49 PM »
As Bahto might ask, is it really a cape hole?  According to George, a diagonal carry off the tee over water is not a cape...

Is 18 at sawgrass a cape?
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2007, 07:25:33 PM »
Quote from: Jay Flemma on November 25, 2007, 07:07:49 PM
As Bahto might ask, is it really a cape hole?  According to George, a diagonal carry off the tee over water is not a cape...

Is 18 at sawgrass a cape?

Well, it may not pass the definition test, but the point is the same.  It seems time to can finishing holes that have water down the left side of the hole.
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sam Morrow

Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2007, 07:36:27 PM »
It is amazing how many 18th holes are long par 4's with water either left or right all the way to the green. God forbid we have anything original.
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Lloyd_Cole

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Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2007, 09:10:39 PM »
I think 18 at Sawgrass is a good hole, I actually rather like this type of hole (I wonder how it became known as the Cape Hole, if it isn't the template...), it is one of the few uses of water, in lake form, that I don't mind on a course. But it has been ruined by it's overuse as a closing hole  on tour. Rather like Fleetwood Mac's wonderful Rumours album in the late '70's - excessive radio play and boom! familiarity and then contempt.
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jim_lewis

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Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2007, 10:06:43 PM »
Tommy:

You have put your finger on one of my pet peeves re: golf course architecture. I call it the "Pebble Beach syndrome".
It seems that most courses that have a body of water are determined to wrap the 18th hole around it. I am unimpressed and that is usually reflected in the rating I assign.

Jim Lewis

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Jason Connor

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Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2007, 10:38:07 PM »
Quote from: Jay Flemma on November 25, 2007, 07:07:49 PM
As Bahto might ask, is it really a cape hole?  According to George, a diagonal carry off the tee over water is not a cape...

Is 18 at sawgrass a cape?


Just curious. Are you questioning whether TPC at Sawgrass is a cape hole because it's barely a dogleg?  Or am I missing something?

« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 10:39:08 PM by Jason Connor »
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We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Mike Nuzzo

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Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #9 on: November 26, 2007, 09:26:54 AM »
cape:
1: a point or extension of land jutting out into water as a peninsula or as a projecting point

It is the mostly isolated greens at NGLA and Mid-Ocean that makes them a cape, they just also happen to have diagonal carries.
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JESII

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Re:A template hole whose time is over
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2007, 09:31:37 AM »
Question then about the strategy of a/the real Cape Holes...does the actual cape setting dictate your ideal line off the tee or do the contours on the green dictate?

At Mid-Ocean or NGLA's Cape holes which sode of the fairway is preferred? The inside or the outside? IS this because of the slopes on the green or is it because of the green's orientation relative to the tee shot area?
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