Stone Eagle

[kconway]

Has anyone played the Tom Doak course in Palm Desert, Stone Eagle??

Comments??

[Brad Tufts]

Wait for it....

[David Stamm]

I think what TD has done there is an engineering marvel and one of the most visually stunning courses I've ever seen. It has some truly great holes and I very much enjoyed despite playing very, very poorly that day. My host was a real gentleman and enjoyed his company. I just feel bad he had to see me play so badly!

[Bill_McBride]

Has anyone played the Tom Doak course in Palm Desert, Stone Eagle??

Comments??

That was the afternoon round during the last Kings Putter, with temperatures in the mid 110's.    Many of the participants were too groggy from the heat to comment, but I think the overall impression was that Stone Eagle is a terrific golf course on very difficult terrain.  There's a bunch of very good holes, skyline greens, wild greens, lots of fun.  Tom Doak says his associates have walked Stone Eagle, I sure wouldn't want to try.

[John Kirk]

Many here have played Stone Eagle.  Since Tom is one of our regular contributors, our GCA members make an effort to play his new courses.  You'll find first hand opinions of all his courses here.

Stone Eagle is not considered one of Tom's best golf courses.  Generally, Pacific Dunes, Barnbougle Dunes, Ballyneal, and perhaps Cape Kidnappers are considered Tom's greatest creations. Like Bill McBride says, Stone Eagle is built on the side of a mountain, and the terrain is very steep for golf.  Most of the holes are routed up towards, or down away from a canyon at the top of the course, so there are quite a few parallel fairways  as the best solution for course routing.

The primary weaknesses are:

1)  A very demanding and hilly walk.  Very few walk.
2)  A less than ideal set of par 3s.  All five (of 19 holes) are routed to cross unplayable terrain to get to the next playable area.  Three are drop shots, and the variety of clubs used to play them is limited.
3) At 6850 yards, the course is quite short for the outstanding player.

The primary strengths are:

1)  The course tests your ability to judge uphill and downhill constantly, much more than typical.
2)  Enjoyable short game play around the greens.  The greens have lots of slopes and lots of internal contours.  The bunkers are deep and difficult, often several yards from the green's edge.
3)  World class desert course conditioning, with perfect, deep green playing surfaces.
4)  Most importantly, the course is unusually beautiful, a real piece of golf course art, with artfully constructed bunkers and waste areas, and wonderful use of existing rockpiles to frame greens.  Furthermore, the course sits way above the Coachella Valley, so the golfer is treated to magnificent short range and long range views all day long.

It's a 7.

[Tony Petersen]

The greens are craaaaaazy, man

All turkey aside, I had a great time playing Stone Eagle. Not a tournament course, but a perfect members course for those that appreciate nature's quirk (and TD's genious). If anything, it a great example of the creative minds at Renaissance and their ability to create a true gift on some unforgiving terrain (and yes, it was over 120 with the wind shear. Basically, a pizza oven)

I would love to play the course in November with a high of 85. Not sure if I would want to play it every day, but for a winter course, there is soooooo much fun to be had!

[Bob_Huntley]

I played a part of the course after 18 holes at the Plantation. The drive from the the Plantation to to Stone Eagle was something like twenty minutes. It took another five minutes or so to get to the gate house of SE. From there it was a switch back ride to the first tee of another five minutes. As the temperature was 115 degrees Farenheit I was somewhat groggy on the first hole.

I played three holes and was down to Joe Perches, a most amiable competitor on all three holes. As the fourth reared up and I saw Lou Duran, a rather good player, four putt putt the fourth, I called the sheriff and asked to be escorted from the course.

I do not wish to be excoriated by Tom Doak but I would rather go to the dentist that play the course again.


Bob

[Joe Bentham]

Played Stone Eagle twice fully, and a handful of other times partially.  Also did about 20 loops there, so I've seen it plenty but not since its first winter season.
World class setting.  With snow on the mountains it was as pretty a non-ocean side course as I've seen.  The whole place was understated class and the people who worked there where great.  I looked forward to the lunch at the top everyday I was there.
As for the golf course, all I can say is I'd like to see someone do better with what they had to work with.  The green complexes are top notch and the greens themselves are choked full of diabolical pin placements.  How have they maintained the greens speed wise?  Slower then normal for down there I hope.
The highlight for me was 6-8.  6 is an uphill par 4 with a great tee shot over the canyon leaving a shot into an even cooler green tucked between two humps.  7 a drop shot par 3 affords a view from the tee of the entire valley so good there is a looking glass for you to use.  8 is as good a Doak 5 par as I've played.
In the end though I think the confines of the property limited them a bit.  The short 4 pars seem a bit redundant and IMO 17 and 18 are the weakest holes on the course.  Although I haven't seen anything else in the Coachella valley better in two winters down there.  Even if it does have the obligatory desert stream/pond.

[Tom_Doak]

Bob H:  Have no intention of excoriating you, but if you really only saw four holes and in 110 degree heat, your perspective on the course must be somewhat limited.

In general, it was a great setting for a golf course and even though it was a difficult job, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.  And I don't know that I would do much differently.  

Many of the greens started with a seven per cent grade, so we could have built them small and flat or big and wild; we tried as many different variations on that as we could.

[kconway]

Tom,

Did you intend the course to be walked?

[rjsimper]

I will tell you this: there is little else like it.  For my dollar, I enjoy the course and it's fun to play - a great change from the norm.  The views are spectacular and it is quite an accomplishment.  I understand there are those who feel it's not quite for them...some just don't like mountain golf no matter how wide the fairways.

But for me, I've enjoyed my 2 rounds there tremendously...just watch out for the binocular glasses on the 7th hole if it's hot and sunny out.

[Tom_Doak]

kconway:

Yes, we wanted the course to be walkable, even though the client didn't really care about that one way or the other.  We've never built a course we can't walk, although I reserve the right to do one someday if I think the project is worth doing.

From a practical standpoint, we knew that very few of the members would be interested in walking, and it was impossible to fit 19 holes close together without a couple of hikes being involved.  The longest walk is from 6 green to 7 tee and hopefully most players find those two spots are worth the trouble to get to.  In practice, most people walk a fair amount but they have a cart and a forecaddie and they will jump in the cart whenever they have to make a climb.

[John Kirk]

It's really fun to drive the ball there.  The fairways are wide and undulating, and there 's almost no rough, just a little strip to protect balls from entering the desert.  But there are best areas to hit each tee shot.  The course doesn't take driver out of your hands very often; the short (mostly meaning downhill) holes 6, 9, 11, and 16 have "driver or other" options.

[Eric Franzen]

It's really fun to drive the ball there.  The fairways are wide and undulating, and there 's almost no rough, just a little strip to protect balls from entering the desert.  But there are best areas to hit each tee shot.  The course doesn't take driver out of your hands very often; the short (mostly meaning downhill) holes 6, 9, 11, and 16 have "driver or other" options.

Amen to that, John.

The undefined fairways are very inviting.

And I would rather play Stone Eagle again than go to the dentist.  

[Bob_Huntley]

Bob H:  Have no intention of excoriating you, but if you really only saw four holes and in 110 degree heat, your perspective on the course must be somewhat limited.

In general, it was a great setting for a golf course and even though it was a difficult job, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.  And I don't know that I would do much differently.  

Many of the greens started with a seven per cent grade, so we could have built them small and flat or big and wild; we tried as many different variations on that as we could.

Tom,

I do think that you ar blessed with incrdible talent to get a course in there at all. Don't mind me, I was fried at the time.


Bob

 

[kconway]

Played Stone Eagle twice fully, and a handful of other times partially.  Also did about 20 loops there, so I've seen it plenty but not since its first winter season.
World class setting.  With snow on the mountains it was as pretty a non-ocean side course as I've seen.  The whole place was understated class and the people who worked there where great.  I looked forward to the lunch at the top everyday I was there.
As for the golf course, all I can say is I'd like to see someone do better with what they had to work with.  The green complexes are top notch and the greens themselves are choked full of diabolical pin placements.  How have they maintained the greens speed wise?  Slower then normal for down there I hope.
The highlight for me was 6-8.  6 is an uphill par 4 with a great tee shot over the canyon leaving a shot into an even cooler green tucked between two humps.  7 a drop shot par 3 affords a view from the tee of the entire valley so good there is a looking glass for you to use.  8 is as good a Doak 5 par as I've played.
In the end though I think the confines of the property limited them a bit.  The short 4 pars seem a bit redundant and IMO 17 and 18 are the weakest holes on the course.  Although I haven't seen anything else in the Coachella valley better in two winters down there.  Even if it does have the obligatory desert stream/pond.

Joe,

have you played at the courses at Bog Horn?  

[Yancey_Beamer]

I visited with Tom while the course was being built.The center of the course was a small mountain range that was constantly blasted away.The sound was impressive and my return to play the course impressed me even more.What a change in the topography and what dramatic fun!The view of the valley from that height is outstanding.

[Joe Bentham]

Kconway--
No.

[kconway]

Bob H:  Have no intention of excoriating you, but if you really only saw four holes and in 110 degree heat, your perspective on the course must be somewhat limited.

In general, it was a great setting for a golf course and even though it was a difficult job, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again.  And I don't know that I would do much differently.  

Many of the greens started with a seven per cent grade, so we could have built them small and flat or big and wild; we tried as many different variations on that as we could.

Tom,

Did the design of either Big Horn course effect your design thoughts for Stone Eagle?

[Matt_Ward]

I've opined previously on Stone Eagle but have to add this -- there are a few holes of note I really enjoyed. The downhill- then uphill par-5 13th is really good -- don't be fooled by flirting with the left side as the green neatly runs away from that side.

I also enjoyed the par-4 14th -- the uphill hole plays a bit longer than the scorecard indicates. The cut-off with the fairway gives you something extra to think about.

And the ending hole is one of the toughest you can play in all of the Coachella Valley. When the pin is cut tight to the left -- either short or even more so when placed in the rear deep left area -- you'll have your hands full with finishing with a par.

I've played better Doak designs and I say John Kirk's mentioning on how weak the overall stature of the par-3's is dead-on in my mind.

p.s. I also liked the downhill long par-4 4th. Just don't overcook the tee shot left. The uphill 5th may be the most underrated hole on the entire course.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

BOB WAS NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS FRIED THERE. I LIKE THE FACT IT IS A COURSE ONE COULD FIND A CLIFT HIGH ENOUGH  FOR A GOOD LIFE ENDING SWAN DIVE FROM IN LIGHT OF THE TIGERS EFFORT THIS AFTERNOON.

[Pete_Pittock]

I believe I was four down (after 4) to Tiger when I succumbed to the heat, which was also responsible for me agreeing to play from too far back. Even when riding a caddy is essential to get around. Despite my high score it is still a thinking man's course.

[Bill_McBride]

BOB WAS NOT THE ONLY PERSON WHO WAS FRIED THERE. I LIKE THE FACT IT IS A COURSE ONE COULD FIND A CLIFT HIGH ENOUGH  FOR A GOOD LIFE ENDING SWAN DIVE FROM IN LIGHT OF THE TIGERS EFFORT THIS AFTERNOON.

Tiger, I feel your pain.  This has been a most uncomfortable season indeed.

[Tom_Doak]

kconway:

The client made a point of taking me over to the original course at Bighorn to show me how narrow it was on some of the mountain holes, to ask us to keep it wider and more playable than that.  That's the only time I went over there.

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Tom I think you built a course far superior to both Bighorn courses in everyway. Most should agree unless you have the flower or cart contract at Bighorn. I played two rounds at Stone Eagle and despite the over the top heat really liked the course. I would love to play if again in normal temps. I also find it is a thinking mans course. It is not my favorite Doak course but he had many better sites to work with as well. Bill the pain will ease over the next decade.