[Sean_A]

For all you sleuths out there, here is a chance to put your sleuthing to good use.  I am trying to identify the course and hole pictured below.  Near as I can tell, there are beach huts down the right and a village of red tiled roofs in the distance.  My first thought was Hunstanton, but the far shore of what would be the Wash looks to be too close in this painting and the clubhouse (red tiled building or white building?) is all wrong.  I am also thinking this could be a course on the east coast of Scotland.  A chap called Noel Bligh was the painter and I think this is from the 1930s.  Any guidance would be appreciated.


Ciao

[John Kavanaugh]

Have you already bought it or is it for sale.  Looks like something worth owning.

[ANTHONYPIOPPI]

Sean:

I'd start by researching the painter. There is something on Noel Gervase Bligh (related to Captain Bligh?) at the Frick Art Reference Library. I also see that Beaux Art, a London Gallery, had an "Exhibition of Paintings and Water-Colours by Noel Bligh/"

Good luck. Keep us posted.

Anthony
 

[Tony_Muldoon]

Edit: on further reflection I think we have to allow for acertain ammount of artistic license.   Hunstanton does have that kind of feel and the huts.


I can’t be sure because I don’t have that shot and things have grown since.  But…

The huts and the red tiles could be at least as likely  on the south coast.


 If I’m right that’s just a private house rather than the clubhouse.  Also isn’t it a beach behind the clubhouse rather than a stretch of water.

This was once a very famous course, well into the 1930’s and it does have the beach huts.





Possible?



Bembridge.  The first photo is looking the wrong way and shows a hut or tow. The second would be in roughly the right position and if it wasn’t for the growth (of the buckthorn?), you would see huts, and more than one very large red roofed buildings.

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

My first guess was Cruden Bay.  They had "bathing machines" on the beach in the good ole days, the dunes would have been much lower then, and the building in the distance could be the "Pink Palace in the Sandhills" or even Slains Castle, although the perspectives don't seem completley right.

If you want to follow up the Bembridge (Royal Isle of Wight) lead, first look up Hutchinson's book (it was profiled there) and secondly see if you can get in touch with Philip Truett, a golf coolector who has an avid interest in Bembridge.  Try www.golfcollectors.com

Good luck

Rich

[Mark Pearce]

It's probably completely wrong, but it looks a lot like Dunstanburgh Castle to me.  The village across the bay would be Beadnell and the castle in the far distance Bamburgh Castle.  The North East coastlne has lots of bathing huts, even today.  I don't recognise the bunker, though.

[Tony_Muldoon]

This months bathing beauty.  Braid 1922.  

[Adrian_Stiff]

For all you sleuths out there, here is a chance to put your sleuthing to good use.  I am trying to identify the course and hole pictured below.  Near as I can tell, there are beach huts down the right and a village of red tiled roofs in the distance.  My first thought was Hunstanton, but the far shore of what would be the Wash looks to be too close in this painting and the clubhouse (red tiled building or white building?) is all wrong.  I am also thinking this could be a course on the east coast of Scotland.  A chap called Noel Bligh was the painter and I think this is from the 1930s.  Any guidance would be appreciated.


Ciao

Looks at bit 7th Sandwichey

[Mark Pearce]

That picture (taken looking south, rather than North as Sean's painting would be) shows another feature of a number of North Eastern links courses, the gun emplacement.  I remember there's one at Burnham & Berrow but haven't seen many elsewhere, though Dunstanburgh, Seahouses and Bamburgh all have them in the North East.  The castle in Tony's picture is the ruin of Dunstanburgh Castle.

[Tommy Williamsen]

 Sean check this out.  Scroll down.
http://www.burstowandhewett.co.uk/cgi-bin2/burstowandhewett/search.pl?keywords=

[Tony_Muldoon]

For all you sleuths out there, here is a chance to put your sleuthing to good use.  I am trying to identify the course and hole pictured below.  Near as I can tell, there are beach huts down the right and a village of red tiled roofs in the distance.  My first thought was Hunstanton, but the far shore of what would be the Wash looks to be too close in this painting and the clubhouse (red tiled building or white building?) is all wrong.  I am also thinking this could be a course on the east coast of Scotland.  A chap called Noel Bligh was the painter and I think this is from the 1930s.  Any guidance would be appreciated.


Ciao

Looks at bit 7th Sandwichey

Agreed Adrian but then he’s really messing with things.  

The big building would be the Princes Clubhouse, but the if builidngs, near but not on the coast, were the fishermans cottages and sailoft then they should be behind the Clubhouse.  Also why not give us the glorious white cliffs of Pegwell Bay?  

[Tony_Muldoon]

I posted the above as I was leaving the office and as soon as I saw the large on screen image of the bay, I thought "he's nailed it."


I believe the buildings are, in front, the Guildford Hotel which was torn down in the seventies and the Old Clubhouse which in those days was an amalgam of several painted buildings. The B/w image above is from the early 30's.

Does anyone know if RSG ever demolished buildings between the course and the sea?  The Fishermen’s cottages at Prince's look nothing like the “huts” in the painting. Here’s Sarazen on the 6th with the cottages behind.


The 7th tee shot is all I have (but that bunker looks familiar.)



BUY

[Andy Levett]

I thinks its Cruden Bay too, though I didn't realise until Rich pointed it out. Slains Castle in the right background, Port Eroll centre background, palace in the sandhills left background.

[Josh Smith]

Sean,

      I don't know the course, but the painting is really beautiful.  As you say, paintings are usually viewed at a distance and I totally agree with you, this one works well.

Josh

[Sean_A]

Everybody

Thanks for the replies.  So far, its a struggle.

Anthony: I have searched this Noel Bligh chap, but found very little on him.

Tony: As per Rihc's suggestion I asked the Bembridge man and he assures me that this isn't Bembridge.

Andy & Rich: Perhaps you can fill me in on how the routing of the course was in the 30's.  From the painting I am viewing - if this is Cruden Bay, we are looking at a hole coming home, but quite close to the seaside holes going out.  Cruden Bay is a circular routing.  The finishing holes (any holes in fact) are not adjacent to the holes going out.  It could be a case of the course being very different these days, but I thought that the "modern" routing was established in the 1920's.  Now I could very well be wrong about the date of this painting - it could be earlier than I suspect.  I am guessing the age of the painting by the frame which looks to be original.  In fact, I thought the painting may be newer - from the 50s perhaps.  

Tony & Adrian: It could be Sandwich, but again, I don't know the routing history.  Currently, there is no hole to the seaside of #7.  I could be wrong, but this scene looks like it depicts an upper fairway and a lower fairway (close to the huts).  The upper fairway is heading home.  Any clues to make Sandwich fit.

Somebody mentioned that it could be Montrose.  I have never seen Montrose, is it a possibility?

Ciao

[Marc Haring]

I reckon it is Royal St Georges #7.

This picture in my files even shows the top of the old Princes clubhouse in the left hand side. And surely the cliffs are shown in the painting as streaks of white. The bunkers, the dogleg to the hole, everything looks about right to me.



From their website:



There is that line of bunkers up the right hand side with the final one up by the green. And that has to be the 11th green in the distance. The bunker in the foreground in the painting would be the second bunker on the right of the fairway on their map of the hole.

[Rich Goodale]

Sean

My Cruden Bay thought was a semi-educated guess, and looking at the lay of the land I think it was a guess too far.  The 7th at Sandwich looks like a very good candidate.

When you contacted Mr. Truett re: Bembridge, did you get an e-mail address or phone number?  I'd like to ask him about Archie Simpson's involvement there in 1894.

Cheers

Rich

[Mark Chaplin]

Sean,

I'm going with #7 at Sandwich, I do not think there is a lower fairway depicted, I believe the area that is now the road to Princes would have just been scrubland before the dunes start. I don't know how Princes was accessed before the war.

Chappers

[Ed Tilley]

Ciao

Looks completely right to me. Just slightly back and to the right of this picture.

[Andy Levett]

Yes, the background looks plausible at Cruden Bay, but RSG seems to have a golf hole as well.

[Adrian_Stiff]

The 8th tees at Sandwich are fairly new. The old 8th used to be a par 3 hole to the current green and the 11th now a 3 was a par 4, same green but tee further back. So the tees are not in the painting if it was done in the 30s. Artist's licence etc etc, I am pretty sure it is the 7th from perhaps the maiden. The 11th green seems in alignment to the old Princes Clubhouse and the building to the left may be the old coastguard building.

[Sean_A]

Thanks all!  Sorry for my late reply, but I was slumming it round Huntercombe - I got the bug bad!  

I think Sandwich looks a very good candidate, but I still have concerns.  

Adrian, do you for certain that the low white building to what would be the Princes clubhouse was a coast guard station?  What was the name of the station and when did it disappear?  This info could go a long way toward a more solid date for the painting if it is Sandwich.

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

Thanks all!  Sorry for my late reply, but I was slumming it round Huntercombe - I got the bug bad!  

I think Sandwich looks a very good candidate, but I still have concerns.  

Adrian, do you for certain that the low white building to what would be the Princes clubhouse was a coast guard station?  What was the name of the station and when did it disappear?  This info could go a long way toward a more solid date for the painting if it is Sandwich.

Ciao

No not for certain. I just have something in the back of my mind that the new clubhouse was built on the old site of the coastguard or firestation. Prince's changed after the war to an 18 and a 9. The new clubhouse was built maybe 25- 30 years ago in the middle of the course to allow 3 loops. Im 99% certain that is the 7th though. The lack of 8th tees ie from 1930 behind green 7 seals it. The 49 Open certainly still had the 8th as a long downhill par 3. I dont know what the £££ is for the picture though I suspect with the history it would make four figures at an auction.

[Andy Levett]

This is a pre-WW2 cigarette card (!) routing for Prince's, showing the coastguard station. Don't know if it helps, or the exact date of the card.

[Sean_A]

Adrian & Andy

Cheers! I am convinced the painting is the 7th at Sandwich with the 11th green in the background.  I have another source that states there was a coast guard station on Sandwich Bay so it all fits.  

Now, for the year.  Adrian, I am a bit confused about your reasoning with the 8th tee.  There is no tee in the painting, yet (assuming my general date for the paining is the 1930s is correct) it was meant to be there because the '49 Open had the 8th as a long par 3.  Certainly by 1973 the 8th is a long par 4.  The old 8th was known as Hades.  I think Hades existed at least until the late 50's because it is featured in Goldfinger which was published in the late 50's.  Also, Peter Allen calls it a new hole in 1973.  Finally, I think the new Princes clubhouse was built in the mid 80s, so this means that the coast guard station could well have been there up to and after the changes to the 8th hole.  

I run into problems with the dates because Noel Gervase Bligh was born in 1888 and died in 1984.  The painting could have been done after the changes to the 8th were made - although Bligh would have been quite old by then.  This guy was something else.  He fought in both world wars (was a Lt Col), outlived a 67 year old daughter when she died and remarried in 1971!  I reckon if he could remarry then he could probably paint!  Of course, all this means that the painting is probably much newer than originally thought assuming artistic license isn't too heavily involved.

Thanks again all!

Ciao  

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