GolfClubAtlas.com > Golf Course Architecture

RESTORE THE YALE BIARRITZ!

(1/6) > >>

ANTHONYPIOPPI:
I think this needs to be a new thread.

Doesn't this now raise the question: what is restoration? I mean, we beat the crap out of architects who don't restore to the original style or a style of an era for which we approve. So, with that mindset, shouldn't Yale and all the others be restored to approach height, members be damned? Boys and girls, we can't have it both ways.

God forbid if Brian Silva (or Rees, of Fazio, or Ault, etc. etc. ) ever worked on a course and converted the front portion of a Biarritz to green  height. Michael Fay would call a special meeting of the Donald Ross Society just to lambaste Silva in public. Conversely, if Tom Doak (or Gil or any of the other architects with Favored Nation Status ) ever made a conversion of a Biarrtiz there would be hundreds of posts fawning all over the work calling it the greatest move since Old Tom extended the 18th at the Old Course.

My opinion is to return Yale to its original style. None of us, Favored Nation guys incuded, are smarter or more talented than C. B. Macdonald or Seth J. Raynor.

Fight amongst yourselves.

Anthony

Lloyd_Cole:
Tony

Didn't Tom Doak have an idea that a certain number of courses by each architect (how many architects? who is important enough? who isn't?) should be 'protected' in their original glory?
Rather like what the National Trust does in the UK with listed properties.

I think that, overall this is a nice idea - but which courses? Who administers? If this could ever come to pass... Yale sounds like a nice place to start.

Until then, I still like the idea of the long putt.

Geoffrey Childs:
Tony

You are a brilliant and insightful writer but I disagree with you on this one.

In the "good old days" it was most likely impractical to have the front as green due to both agronomical issues and perhaps more importantly the fact that drivers and brassie tee shots over the pond would not stop in the front anyway. That is a totally aerial hole with front pin locations.

Today, its easier to maintain greens AND even a short knocker like me can hit a 4, 5 or 6 iron (into the wind, no wind or a slight tail wind) to front pins and stop the ball before it goes into the swale.

Every time I play Yale I anticipate the pin location on 9 and I must say there is a disappointment whenever a front pin is used.  I'd say its there 80% of the time which I think is about 4 to 5 times more frequently then it should be used.  I'm sure pace of play issues account for this.  Front pins do have their merit as that is the only time the water comes into play at all.

If we can maintain the front section as green BUT firm as Scott would like it then I would keep it as green to increase the variety.  I would pin BACK locations at least 80% of the time.

Phil Benedict:
Before I played Yale for the first time my only experience with Biarritz was the 8th at Whippoorwill, where the green started after the swale.  It's a good par 3 but nothing special.  The 9th at Yale is special.  Only on the few similarly maintained Biarritz greens do you get that putt from the valley, which is just a unique shot.  I wouldn't want to change that now.

Plus I laugh every time I see the hole.

ANTHONYPIOPPI:
Lloyd:

Brilliant.

Doak is so right... PRESERVE YALE!

As far as the long putt, it is a wonderful shot, but picture yourself with a wedge in your hand needing to feather one just over the trough. If that's not exciting enough, think about the next shot when you have to hit it out of the swale.

Dr. Childs:

I think you have underestimated the genius of Macdonald and Raynor. Yale was designed with three tees. Quoting the Hartford Courant, "The long course is 6,552, with a par of 71: for the regular course 6,107, par 69: and the short course 5,518, par also 69."

This is the important part, "... play will not necessarily be confined to one of the three courses. The players may choose his favorite tee on any hole by agrement with his group."

In other words, Dr. Childs, if Raynor wanted the front to be green, he would have made it that way since better players would have had the option to move tees and not be required to hit drivers or brassies. Shorter hitters (like yourself), who would be forced to use longer clubs, or less adept players, would most likely have ended up in the swale with a legitimate chance to make par or bogey. That sounds fair to me.

Your agronomic argument does not stand up. If greenkeepers of the day could maitain putting surfaces like those on 1 and 8, they would be able to maintain the 9th without a problem.

Anthony

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page