[Pete_Pittock]

The 14th green will be widened on the left side by about six feet and the contours left of the green will be softened. This will mean more pinable area in the front.  The work will be performed November 26-30. This was confirmed at Trails pro shop and they said that it was official and public knowledge.

Also, when on the first tee at BD I asked which green they were using and the said the new green was basically abandoned as a failed experiment, but coulde pressed into use if the original first green is closed for some reason. EDIT NOTE: This is the 1st at Bandon Dunes.

Sorry if this has been broached before, and signing off to drive into Bandon for dinner.

[Paul_Turner]

I'd like to have had another crack at this hole before the changes.  Are the architects involved?

[Dan Smoot]

Is the idea of this change to give the player a better target from the right side of the fairway.  It's the back right pin position thats scary.

[Jeff Doerr]

Thanks Pete,

I played the original twice - both times with SW from about 90 for the approach. We'll be there in Feb., so look forward to seeing the change.

Here is an image from our last trip:

[Tom Jefferson]

Yes, Bill Coore and Dave Zinkand will be on site for the work on 14 green and surrounds.

Tom

[Pete_Pittock]

  Back from town and dinner at the Wild Rose. Very good homemade food. The Alloro Wine Bar was closed on Sunday, alas.
  I can't talk about the playability because my back went out on the 14th and I limped in on the shortest easiest route.
  The softening of the contour on the left edge of the green will probably mean fewer cross-green into the right bunker excursions. There was a dearth of good hole locations on the front 1/3 of the green. As far as back right is concerned it shouldn't affect that at all but there will be more leeway for bailing out on the left, since most mortals will probably be hitting uphill shots awatyn from the right bunkers.
 

[David Botimer]

Is the idea of this change to give the player a better target from the right side of the fairway.  It's the back right pin position thats scary.

Dan, I believe the idea is to make the hole finishable for mid to high handicapper.  It is easily the hardest hole at BT based on my observing hundreds play it (I caddie here).  In fact, of all tee shots witnessed hit to the lower right fairway during a north to south wind (again probably hundreds), I've seen maybe one par, while with a south to north wind but a handful of pars.  Essentially all the eagles, birdies and pars come with tee shots to the upper left fairway, or to the green.

Additionally, about 1 in 4 resort players (usually handicap > 10) don't finish the hole.  It makes for a GREAT match play hole, but most of our guests come with some semblance of a "stroke play" mentality and too frequently leave the hole shaking their heads.

[David Botimer]

Dan,

By the way, the toughest pin ( my estimated average strokes observing resort play) is actually front / middle.  That's where most of the "army golf" (left to collection area, right to bunker, back and forth) takes place with subsequent pickup.

Widening the green left should help to minimize some of that.

[Pete_Pittock]

David or Tom,
Could you take before and after pictures, please?

[Joel_Stewart]

Does anyone know why?   When Trails first opened I asked Mike Keiser about it and he drew a line in the sand that it was what it was.   Since they just played the US Mid-Am up there I wonder if it was the response from the USGA or just the general public after 2 years that made Keiser and Bill Coore change?

[Tim Pitner]

That's a shame, IMO.

What next, "soften" the Road Hole bunker?  Wait a minute . . .

[Sean_A]

Does anybody have a closer look pics of the approach from the right and left?  Even from the pic above that green looks to be severe.  Any chance eliminating one of the greenside bunkers could allow a guy coming from the bottom right to kick a ball on?  I have never seen the course, but I think its a shame to soften greens if softening approaches could solve the problem.

Ciao

[Walt_Cutshall]

The biggest problem I have with that hole is that all of the drives hit to the right end up in the same place. So you either bomb it off the tee or hit something into the collection area to the right. Where's the strategy in that? I didn't mind the unforgiving nature of the green complex, but I like short game challenges.

Obviously Kaiser and Coore must agree there is a problem with the hole or they wouldn't be changing it.

[Tim Pitner]

The biggest problem I have with that hole is that all of the drives hit to the right end up in the same place. So you either bomb it off the tee or hit something into the collection area to the right. Where's the strategy in that?

Don't go right off the tee.  Seriously.  One of the reasons I like the hole is that it's a do or die hole without water.  Err to the right and you have some chance of making par but are mostly playing to avoid a big number.  

[Zack Kelly]

I thought this was a great hole!!!!!! Most Everyone that has played it had a very strong opinion one way or another about it.  They either hated it or loved, I personally was a lover.. But I love challenges with a 60* in my hand.  But I'm sure Bill will do great work and keep it memorable, its just ashame that such a controversial hole will be changed.

[Walt_Cutshall]

The biggest problem I have with that hole is that all of the drives hit to the right end up in the same place. So you either bomb it off the tee or hit something into the collection area to the right. Where's the strategy in that?

Don't go right off the tee.  Seriously.  One of the reasons I like the hole is that it's a do or die hole without water.  Err to the right and you have some chance of making par but are mostly playing to avoid a big number.  

Maybe my recollection is faulty, but I don't remember playing left as a realistic option, and everything played to the center, right center or right ended up in the same place.

[Dan Kelly]

Wouldn't "reconstructive surgery" be an apter metaphor?

To those in the know: How will such a change affect the playing of the hole?

[John Kavanaugh]

I think we have seen a chink in the C&C integrity armor.  Bill Coore should have refused to make the change saying that is the way I built it and that is the way it stays.

[Jed Peters]

Personally, I welcome the change.

I think it's a STUPID golf hole.

Again, everything right ends up in the same areas.

And missing right is a HUGE landing area....from right off the right side to down in the bottom hitting a slice or huge block.

There's no real "risk/reward" element....drive the green? Can you? I mean, seriously. I've seen it done, but also seen balls hit, then roll all over the place when perfectly struck. Good short hole? not really. Easy drive with a demanding second with a flip wedge.

I dunno, I just don't like the hole all that much. The weakest one at that course IMHO.

[BCrosby]

Jed - I drove the green. One of my playing partners was just off the green to the left with a relatively easy chip.

I love the hole as it is, but I understand why the changes make sense.

Pete -

Could you walk us through the changes to the 1st green at PD? Is it being moved?

Bob

[Pete_Pittock]

BCrosby,
Re: the 1st Green (at Bandon Dunes!) had an additional green built, mkaing it a slight dogleg left with a shorter route to the 2nd tee. That new green is generally abandoned for normal play.

  To get the optimal angle into the 14th green you need to really challenge the edge of the forest and risk a lost ball or unplayable lie. Otherwise, unless you have a strong right to left ball flight most balls will filter to the right center or right edge of the fairway. The other option for the best play into the green is to barely reach the fairway and get a relatively flat lie with a full wedge/short iron to the green. Otherwise your approach angle is on a bad oblique to a narrow green.
  Adding six feet of green on the left side in my mind doesn't  change the green. If it adds more pinable area to the front third, that is a plus. Softening the slope on the left side adds more shot selections in a position where many people finish up.
 Many great holes have been tweaked from the original. I don't think that this minor adjustment to the 14th is a seminal moment in the Coore/Crenshaw mystique.
   But I would be interested in finding out what led to the decision to make the augmentation and tuck, and if our previous threads on this hole helped in the discussion.

[Jed Peters]

Jed - I drove the green. One of my playing partners was just off the green to the left with a relatively easy chip.

I love the hole as it is, but I understand why the changes make sense.

I have only played it in the dead of winter the last 3 years. We played from the backs.

No one in our group, including a former tour pro that hits it about 270 carry would reach the green.

We're probably just not good enough.

[Tom Huckaby]

Jed:

You do know the wind basically reverses itself winter v. summer, correct?

Picture that hole downwind.  I've seen it driven several times.. and by players who truly aren't all that good.

Funny thing is, fail to drive the green and the hole is TOUGHER downwind... the shot into the green being that much tougher to stop....

Put me down with those who love this golf hole as it is.  And I too can somewhat understand why they are changing it, but also think it's a damn shame and see a lot of truth in JK's sentiments.

It's a sad day for golf when a unique hole like this has to be changed.

TH

[Matt_Ward]

I agree w Tim Pitner in regards to avoiding the right side because one you are in that position you'll be hard pressed to make five or better. The "sucker" play is on that side.

The best play is to challenge the left side. Given the elevation of tee-to-green getting either on the green or close to it should not pose that much of an issue for golfers who can hit the ball a reasonable distance.

Sad to hear the hole will be altered but it will still play touch for those who automatically see the right side of the fairway as the "smart" play.

[Andrew Hastie]

I played the hole twice about a month ago and liked it.
But I did see people around me not doing much wrong and having nightmares.
I admire that they built it. I don't think there is any shame in saying the hole is just a little to extreme to be fair.

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