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ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #50 on: December 02, 2007, 10:03:30 PM »
#10 par 4   363yds
   A textbook example of a classic par 4 IMO. Fairly straightaway hole (used to be opening hole), but then you notice the bunkering on the left side of the fairway, so your impulse is to play safe to the right. Which then leaves you trying to hit an approach into a green that is on a diagonal from 8 o'clock to 2 o'clock, and the right side of the green is protected by a ridge/mound with bunkering built into. So from the  right the green  is shallow to you, and short is a world of trouble. Fortunately you should have a short iron in hand, but I love the classic strategy of the hole.

#11  par 4   411yds
   Tee shot over a pond (not a long carry) then between a pair of flanking oak trees for a field goal and on into the fairway. Bunkering in the right fairway landing area, green guarded short left by a big oak tree. Another solid classic hole.  A couple of areas of shelves with bunkers and grass hollows in the last 100 yards on the right that  I don't understand.

#12 par 5   487yds
   An interesting hole to say the least. No matter how you choose to play this one (in two or three shots) you have something to think about on every shot. Effectively a double-dogleg (unless you annihilate your drive  like Kyle did).  I wasn't so sure about the split bi-level fairway in the drive landing area. It didn't seem there was enough area mowed at fairway height for the aggressive line. This par 5 also had short rough like #1 seperating the landing areas. I liked how a cluster of trees  on the  right kept you honest on your second shot so it wasn't just easy to bail out right if you weren't going for the green. Plenty of noticeable  bunkering on the inside of the second dogleg keeps you from just blasting  up as  close to the green as you can get. Then control is needed on the 3rd shot to get your ball on the proper part of this two-tier green. A back left pin is a doozy as there is a back left bunker there for shots that are a little too frisky.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #51 on: December 03, 2007, 01:28:56 AM »
Damn, you make it sound so easy from those tee boxes ...
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #52 on: December 03, 2007, 01:46:44 AM »
Damn, you make it sound so easy from those tee boxes ...

"Oh great, another 450 yard par 4...."

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #53 on: December 03, 2007, 01:23:28 PM »


#11  par 4   411yds
   Tee shot over a pond (not a long carry) then between a pair of flanking oak trees for a field goal and on into the fairway. Bunkering in the right fairway landing area, green guarded short left by a big oak tree. Another solid classic hole.  A couple of areas of shelves with bunkers and grass hollows in the last 100 yards on the right that  I don't understand.




My guess is that the right side trouble leading up to the green is intended to provide more visual deception. Looking between the goal post oaks, it seems necessary to shape the ball from right to left to stay away from all of the junk on the right hand side. However, a long drive down the left center forces the player to cope with the large oak at the front/left side of the green.

That or the architect wanted to punish a shanked approach... ::)
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #54 on: December 03, 2007, 05:20:15 PM »
Kyle,
   Thanks for the feedback. It was a pleasure to get in a round with you and your father. As for the Mr Ed thing, are you saying I'm old and that is a sign of respect, OR are you saying I look like a horse? ;)


I'm certainly not saying you are old. Respect is not earned through longevity in my book.

Think of it this way: Mr. Ed was more articulate than the average horse. ;)
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #55 on: December 04, 2007, 12:36:54 AM »
I think the 11th green is one of the best on the course, with the right to left slope, sloping off the back, you can play a draw into the green, around the oak tree and the ball will move towards the hole.  The front of the green is open so when (if) the course is playing firm, you can bounce the ball up onto the green.

And if you play to far right of the green, the ball won't come down to the left.  At 450 yards or so, the green is quite receptive to this type of shot, even with the large oak protecting the green.
"... and I liked the guy ..."

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #56 on: December 07, 2007, 04:35:56 PM »
Now on to my favorite part of the course.

#13 par3  169 yards
   The green rises up a bit from the surrounding land, and on this hole the shelving idea works  well to supplement the bunkering as hazards. The slope that comes in from the right side of the green essentially makes that side of the green a two-tier affair. The left side of the green is more of a continuous gentle slope. Easily the best par 3 here in my estimation. Although that may be because it is the only one I hit in regulation. :)

#14 par4  416 yards
    My favorite hole on the course. There are wetlands all the way down the left. Fairway bunkering right for the chickens who avoid the water. I liked the cross-bunker that keeps big hitters honest. I really liked the green and the way it fell off front right to shoulder so-so shots away. The middle left had a nice bowl type area that would take your ball away a bit too if you weren't careful. Cool in the Pinehurst #2 sense, understated and seemingly not a lot going on from a distance (partly because the green is raised up 4-5 feet I think), but then you get up around the green and see the flowing internal contours.

#15 par5  496yds
   Overall a straightaway hole, but effectively the trees and bunkers work well to move you back and forth as you go. Off the tee you just want to get between the two magnificent specimen oaks (kudos to Kyle and team for incorporating some really beautiful trees into the layout). The second shot is where it gets interesting. The green seems within reach and you see a big cluster of bunker built into a raised up area, over which sits the green. What you don't see is that there is some space between the bunkering and the green which is formed into a bit of a swale (mowed at fairway height) that can give you some short game challenges. If you are playing it as a 3-shotter it is interesting because the ground is relatively featureless over there and your mind knows the green is left and your eye sees the bunkering that is front of the green so in spite of  trying to play safe I wouldn't be surprised to learn that many golfers end up  having a tough 3rd shot in. Plus, the green is set perpendicular to the line of play, so  the  further left you come in from the shallower your target is. Conversely, playing the second out to the right gives a better angle in for someone who is managing their game and risks. The only downside was I felt there should have  been some opening for the low ball guy to have a ball roll through and utilize some slope to get to the green, instead of having to exclusively fly in.

#16 par3  154yds
   A routine par 3 with water all along the left. Daunting for sure, but I don't know that  you would ever try to do anything but hit the middle of the green. The bunker in front would certainly make a front pin exacting to get to. The bunkers at the back are effective in keeping you from attacking a pin  back there (although that didn't stop Pete Galea from hitting a lovely shot to about 5 feet). The way the green sets up on a diagonal  to the line of play is nice,  and trying to bail out right with the mounding and grass bunkers is not really a good idea. Rough ground heading up to the green precludes a running shot which might have been nice to have as an option when the wind is up.

#17 par4  410yds
    I really liked this hole also. Fairly straightaway hole, fairway pinched by flanking bunkering (wonderful dual use of bunker complex between #15 and #17). The tendency would be to bail out to the right which seems more open off the tee, but doing that leaves you with and approach that must find away around a massive oak tree that guards the green short right. The green is relatively deep and has enough slope and contour to make three-putting a distinct possibility.

18 par4  384yds
    Similar to #9, but the water doesn't have to be flirted with unless you hit it long and left. I like how the fairway narrows down the further you go, so once you know the course you have to decide how far up into the neck you are  willing to  risk your tee ball. The shelving down the right side is visually distracting. Without knowing the course it seems you might think there is a split fairway on either side of the right side fairway bunkers. Rough ground rising up before the green blocks your view of some of the green surface which is set into an amphitheater of sorts with water hard on the left. I liked how the green tilted from back right down to front left, thus making bailout approaches to the right more difficult to get up and down.

  All in all, a very nice course that I would be happy to play on a regular basis.

In hindsight, I find it interesting to note that the front nine land had a little more movement which I felt Kyle and team made good use of, and yet my favorite stretch of  holes is on the back side which is pretty much flat.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2007, 04:37:42 PM »
Ed:

Thanks for your writeup!

I think I should play the tees you played from more often! Once or twice a month doesn't cut it!

Anyhow, glad to hear you (ultimately) liked the course...maybe it grew on you?

If you ever want to come out and see it again, just let me know!

And that goes for any of you!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2007, 04:38:02 PM by Jed Peters »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2007, 05:06:24 PM »
Jed,
   I would love to hear your thoughts about what I wrote. I have only see the course once, and you know it very well.  Are there any spots where you initially had the same impression as me, but after knowing the course better  have come to realize was incorrect?
   There has to be some stuff you disagree with me on,  so don't be shy. I am always happy to learn.
    Thanks again for the great day.
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Kyle Henderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2007, 06:05:57 PM »

    Thanks again for the great day.


Indeed. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Thank you for hosting everyone. It was splendid.
"I always knew terrorists hated us for our freedom. Now they love us for our bondage." -- Stephen T. Colbert discusses the popularity of '50 Shades of Grey' at Gitmo

Mike Benham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #60 on: December 10, 2007, 06:18:44 PM »

I think I should play the tees you played from more often!



And a great point by Jed, can you really evaluate a design unless you have played it from a variety of tee boxes?

Even though I was in a few fairway bunkers, I assumed that with my, by big-boy standards, short driver distance I did not have to worry about narrowing fairways.  However, move me up a tee box or two, then yes, the driving becomes more difficult.
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:So, Morgan Creek - how's about it?
« Reply #61 on: December 10, 2007, 08:10:53 PM »

And a great point by Jed, can you really evaluate a design unless you have played it from a variety of tee boxes?

Even though I was in a few fairway bunkers, I assumed that with my, by big-boy standards, short driver distance I did not have to worry about narrowing fairways.  However, move me up a tee box or two, then yes, the driving becomes more difficult.


I don't think you can.

I think a course's value is based off of the playability for ALL golfers, not just a high or low handicap.

The reason that I personally think that Pacific Dunes is SOOOOO brilliant, is that, other than seeing the back tees, the other tee boxes provide just as much fun, some holes are even better! The white tee on the 13th hole is even cooler than the back tee....and so on.

I play morgan creek from the blues when I play with a friend that's a 20 handicap...it's very fun still, perhaps even more so. And yes, it does tighten up quite a bit, requiring some different clubs off the tee, UNLESS you want to challenge it.

Ed:

I will hit some of your thoughts soon. There are some things I noted that I originally thought, etc. etc.

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