[Dale_McCallon]

If this has been covered, I missed it so my apologies.

The Nov/Dec issue of T&L Golf has an article about a set of golf course plans drawn by Mackenzie that was to be built on a private estate in Argentina.  The plans have now been bought by an American who wants to use the plans to build the course in America.

I don't know if the article is up on their site yet or not (I got in the mail today), but it is a very interesting piece that I figure would garner lots of attention on this site.

[cary lichtenstein]

I read it on the plane the other day. I would seriously doubt that course will ever get built. If it does, it could be built on 85 acres. It would be a modern day St. Andrews.

[Jim Nugent]

Can you really transplant designs across continents?  I thought plans are site-specific.  

Cary, not sure what you mean by a modern-day St. Andrews.  

[Dale_McCallon]

Jim,

I understand your questions about using plans for one site and transporting it somewhere else.  Basically, I think the developer wants to find similar terrain.  The story actually mentioned the Texas hill country.  Obviously no architect has been chosen, but Hurdzan has seen the plans and is apparently close to the developer.

As far as Cary's remarks, the plans called for several double greens.

[Mark_Fine]

Coincidently, several years ago, Wayne and I talked about using old Flynn plans that ironically Hurdzan also has, to do something similar.  The key as mentioned above, is to find the right kind of site that best matches up with the plans.  You’ll never find a perfect match, but with today’s construction technology, you might be able to get something in the ground that is close.  

[Joel_Stewart]

A few years ago I went though RTJ Sr. files and he had hundreds of plans for golf courses that were never built.  He had at one time been consulted on renovations as well at some very big golf courses, Cypress Point as an example.

This Mackenzie plan could be interesting, I'm surprised it hasn't happened before.   At Olympic Club they have hanging on a wall a proposed course by Raynor so these type of routings and plans exist.  The Olympic plan is so basic that it yields very little and I have to believe that the real genuis of Raynor as well as Mackenzies plan is in the execution.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

When CB Macdonald built 'copy' holes did he claim he was reproducing the work of others? No! He just acknowledged that there was already great work out there which might inspire replication of some sort. Wouldn't you build a successor to Gibraltar at Moortown or a 16th at CP or a 12th at ANGC or any hole at Alwoodley if you had Mac's plans and if the ground happened to fit 100%?  For most of the time we have no Mac planns. So, those who have them, use them!

[KBanks]

Have any of the authorities on MacKenzie ever heard of a preliminary routing plan he prepared for Monterey Peninsula Country Club's Shore course?

According to a Cal Brown in his book The Golf Courses of the Monterey Peninsula, Sam Morse asked MacKenzie to design the course in 1927, while he was working on Cypress Point. Difficult economic times apparently prevented the course from going forward.

I was aware from Tom Doak's book that MacKenzie and Robert Hunter finished the MPCC Dunes course after Seth Raynor died.

Ken

 

[Tom_Doak]

KBanks:  I've never heard of there being an extant plan by MacKenzie for the Shore course, but it's quite possible that he drew a plan when they finished the Dunes.  It's also possible that the Shore course was shelved when Cypress Point materialized.

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