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spomer87

Getting Into Golf Architecture
« on: August 03, 2002, 05:25:49 PM »
 I am a sophomore in high school and after playing some of Nebraska's great golf courses like Quary Oaks and Wild Horse, I knew what I wanted to do for a living.  I want to become a golf architect.  The problem is that I don't know how to become one.  After reading the article in "Sports Illstrated" about this site, I knew this was the place to go to find out how to become a golf architect.  I was wondering if anyone can give me any advice on how to become a golf architect. I would really appreciate it. Thanks, Sam
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

A_Clay_Man

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2002, 06:03:54 PM »
There are many more qualified than me to tell you, but since you asked, and it's a weekend when everyone is out golfing, I'll take a stab at it.

Since you are so young you will have the time to study the fundementals and all that go into GCA. And that would be everything! From sciences to Art and more! But, don't be discouraged there is no formulamatic way to become one.

If you look at the serendipity of how some of the greats became GCA'ers or even some of the contemporaries, you'll follow a path that you think will get you where you want. Remember It takes more than knowledge, more than people skills, and above all it will take more than luck.

My best advice would be to make alot of money, and then hire one, and tell him want you want. And in the mean time, study what this site has to offer on the history and the different mistakes and keep your finger on the pulse of whats acceptable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeremy_Glenn.

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2002, 07:10:47 PM »
spomer87,

1- Go into Landscape Architecture at university.  A Bachelor’s degree is enough.  Such a degree will help to GET a job.  But also will also teach you many things that you’ll need to KEEP your job.

2- When in university, take classes such as soil science, grading and drainage, construction, agronomy, etc...  The hard core stuff.  As for the “artsy-fartsy” classes, such as The Influence of Poetry in the Garden (you’ll know them when you see them), you should take some of those too, since they are important in providing a different perspective and an overall ability to understand and design landscapes (golf course are, after all, landscapes).  But remember to learn the subjects that golf course architect specialize in.  You have a big advantage since you can pick and choose the classes that most suit your career goals, instead of “floating around” like many students do because they are unsure of what they really want to do when they finish.

3- Learn AutoCAD.  And, if you can, take a look at LandCADD, MicroStation, Terra Model, 3D Studio, PhotoShop, etc...  Those computer software (especially AutoCAD) are becoming more and more the norm in most golf course architecture firms.  When you get a job, you’ll probably be hired as a draftsman (to start off).  So you’ll be drawing plans, either by hand or on the computer.  This leads me to...

4- Learn how to draw.  It’s a crucial step in learning how to design, and learning how to present your design.  Learning how to draw on paper will allow you to “draw” in the field.  And by drawing I mean a number of things.  Learn the techniques (i.e. how to hold a pencil, etc...).  Then learn how to draw things you see  (such as a person, a tree, etc...).  Then learn how to draw things you imagine (such as a future golf course.)

5- Work on a golf course, either the construction of a new one or on the maintenance crew of an existing course, or even, if you can, on the maintenance crew of a course that is being renovated.  If you can’t do that, work for a landscaping company.  The purpose is to get you to become comfortable working outdoors, building or maintaining things, and to see if you actually enjoy getting up at 5 in the morning and working until 7 in the evening...

6- Learn how to play golf (at least break 90).  It will help you to understand what the golf ball is supposed to do.  As well, some client will judge you on that.  It’s kind of like your appearance: it means nothing and everything at the same time.

7- Like everything in life, act the part.  Be well dressed, well groomed, well mannered, write well, talk well, etc...  Golf course architecture, like most professions, is often a question of "people skill"

8- Have a backup plan, in case you can’t become an architect.  You might be taking a photography class or an AutoCAD class, and really enjoy it.  Keep that in mind.  In other words, don’t put all your eggs in one basket.

9- Study golf course, and analyze golf holes.  Study the routing, the strategy, the aesthetics, the maintenance, the topography (both natural and artificial), the greens, the bunkers, everything you can think of.  Find holes that you think are good, and find out why they are good.  Exactly why.  Do the same for the not so good holes.  Heck, do the same for gardens, parks, streets...  Ask why, why, why...  You need to understand what you want to create.

10-It’s a small world.  Get to know the people in the business, and make a positive impression when doing so.  And once you’ve introduced yourself, keep in touch.  Find a few architects, and get to know them.  Call them and visit their office.  The more you pop in their mind, the more chances you have of getting the phone call that’ll change your life.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

John_Conley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2002, 08:07:50 PM »
Sam:

A) Use your youth to your advantage.  As with any profession that has some "glamour" to it, the beginning stages are low-paid and require sacrifices.  It is far easier to make these when you are 20 than when you are 30 and married or 40 and with kids.  (I know all the actual architects are about to chime in on how there's no glamour, but I just mean what an outsider looks at as being a "cool" job.)

B) Be very conscious of the economics of the industry.  The last 20 years have been a "Golden Age" for the profession, with hundreds of new courses opening every year in America.  In a sport with no growth and a softer economy, it is unlikely that as many courses will be opened in the next 20 years.  While others are bashing heads in competition for the few jobs available, a niche in redesign may open up.  (I see a big benefit to courses if you could integrate low-maintenance native grasses on their wall-to-wall green courses as a way to reduce maintenance costs.)

G'luck!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2002, 08:22:33 PM »
Sam,

I agree with what Jeremy said, but will be willing to give further advice via email or phone.  What part of Nebraska do you live in?  I ask because Landscapes Unlimited, a premier contractor is in Lincoln, and I'm sure they would take a little time to talk to you.  I also ask, half wondering if you have played Pioneer Park (remodel), Highlands, Woodland Hills, or Champions in Omaha, which are all my designs, by any chance?

You can also get some general information from ASGCA (312-372-7090 - ask for Tony Hourston) about careers in golf design.

What John Conley said is also very true, but any golf architect you ask will tell you that for every encouraging word, they probably got about 100 discouraging words.  Which is why very few architects are located in the great plains (music here) where the buffalo roam, etc...... ;)  Probably also has something to do with the need of being by a major airport!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

A_Clay_Man

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2002, 06:13:38 AM »
After reading Jeremy's wonderful course of action, I couldn't help but think of just one more thing...

Watch your six!

Adam

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tim Weiman

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2002, 08:01:06 AM »
Sam,

Golf architecture has never been more than a hobby to me, but I think I can add one point: be prepared to travel.

The great works of this art form are found scattered throughout the world, though certain locations are particularly worth visiting, e.g., UK & Ireland, Melbourne Australia, Northeast United States, etc.

Pick up a copy of Tom Doak's Confidential Guide to see how strong Tom's commitment to travel and study golf architecture was.  Not many people can match what Tom has done, but his efforts are worth keeping in mind as an ideal.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

T_Henningson

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2002, 08:39:44 AM »
Sam-

I too was in your same position while in high school. I grew up caddying and working in golf shops and knew that I wanted to design golf courses. That brought me to the profession of landscape architecture. I went to college for 7 years and picked up my degree in landscape architecture. A bachelors program is typically 5 years, I went the backwards route and picked up a masters. One of the best programs for landscape architecture, and golf course design is just to your south at Kansas State University. They have a great professor in Chip Winslow who knows alot about the profession and also knows some people in the industry. Many of the young golf course architects went to school there. Plus there is a great Brauer golf course down there by the name of Colbert Hills to keep you busy in your limited free time.

I agree with some of the other posts about working on a construction crew. I have talked to several golf course architects in Minnesota and Wisconsin and they all say the same thing....you really need to work on a golf course construction crew to truly know how to put a golf course together. It takes a lot of hard work to get your foot in the door of the profession...especially now that construction is starting to slow. They were building over 500 new courses a year over the last several years, and now that activity is slowing to around 350.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

spomer87

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2002, 08:51:03 PM »
Sorry i have been away from the computer for awhile. Thank you everyone for the information on how to become a golf architecture. I know it will help me!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael_Burrows

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2002, 08:55:52 PM »
Cornell also has a great program. That is where Tom Doak went to school at.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Sweeney

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2002, 04:39:39 AM »
While it may not be logistically feasible for you to work with an architectect on-site next summer, I would strongly suggest caddying at Sand Hills GC where you will see one of the great great courses in the world. If you are interested, let me know via outside email, and I can put you in touch with some people there.

Also, I don't know if it is a formal program at Cornell, but The Ag School at Cornell has allowed students to create their own golf architecture major starting with RT Jones, Jr.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

spomer87

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2002, 08:08:24 PM »
Sand Hills in McCook? That is too far away...5 hours. I would if I lived in the area. I have tried caddying at my local course, but everyone would rather ride a cart. They say that for the extra 5 to 10 dollars its easier to rent a cart. I might play the course next year and I have played its sister course, Wild Horse.
Sam
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

WPM

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2002, 08:42:39 PM »
I'm 14 and live in Minneapolis. I belonged to Golden Valley CC up until last year. Now I play at Rush Creek.  I've wanted to become an architect ever since I found this sight about a year ago.  What should I do to become on?
            Thanks,
                       Billy
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

WPM

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2002, 08:44:47 PM »
Oops, I meant to become an architect.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Slag_Bandoon

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2002, 09:47:43 AM »
"I will study and someday I will be ready."

  Abraham Lincoln

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

SoLa_in_NoIll

Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2002, 04:57:16 PM »
Oh, to be in Sam's position again!  I, too, seriously considered golf architecture as a career while in high school.  In fact, I based my senior year "life goals" project on the profession.  For the project, I had to interview, via mail (this was the late '80s; there was no e-mail), phone or in person, people in the profession and current students.  Living in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, I interviewed an LSU student, two architects in Houston and someone who worked for Nicklaus in Florida.  I loved researching and putting the project together.  In fact, one of the articles I included in the presentation was from Golf magazine entitled "Boy Genius" about a young guy who had recently completed his first course called High Pointe in Michigan.  But, I was somewhat dissuaded by my interviewees from entering the profession.  They indicated that the odds of really "making it" in the business were not great, and they encouraged me to develop business skills first.  I majored in Accounting instead of Landscape Architecture, and I went on to law school and, now, business school.  So, I never became a golf architect.  

I don't regret any of those decisions, though, and I'm trying to get into the golf world via the "back door" through golf course development.  But, if you are really serious about wanting golf architecture as a career, I'd advise you to "go for it."  That means taking the advice above, as well as learning as much as you can about the game, its history, the history of architecture and the current state of the game and the profession.  Also, research the pedigrees of the top architects and try to emulate some of the steps they took.  There is a wealth of information available about course architecture, much of it accessible on this site.  Learn as much as you can.  Good luck.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2002, 07:02:54 AM »
Scott,
  Interesting post, thanks for contributing. I kicked around the idea of getting into golf course architecture years ago until I read Driving the Green by John Strawn and discovered how much non-architecture aspects of the business there are. I think one thing I hadn't realized is how important good people skills are. The ability to convey your ideas, diplomatically be able to tell someone they are wrong or don't know what they are talking about, etc... In the past year as I have had the good fortune to speak with Mike DeVries, Todd Eckenrode, Neal Meagher, and Jim Wagner, etc.. and I have been struck by the high degree of diplomacy that goes into their profession. I highly recommend the Strawn book to anyone considering entering the profession. Also take the time to contact some of the architects whose work you admire and take them out to dinner and I'm pretty sure you will get some pretty good insights into the field and see the passion the above gentlemen bring to their work. Good luck. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Getting Into Golf Architecture
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2002, 07:58:54 AM »
Spomer87,
  Try to intern at a course being built starting off as a grunt....learn from what the shapers are doing, the architect is wanting and let them know that you know a bit about architecture. Every architect that I've encountered loves to talk about architecture. I'd suggest trying to get on with the guys that are doing alot of their work within their own company and have a minimal approach.(Hanse, C&C, Doak, DeVries) These guys are on site more and maybe if you're lucky you'll get to pick their brain about things or even walk the course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

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