[Chris Cupit]

I see great undulation as a foil to the relentless pursuit of green speeds (and boring greens).  As long as you have an owner committed to reasonable speeds, aren't undulations more fun to putt?

Hole #2 from behind:  


Back right portion of a par 3. Tee in background. Yes, there is a hole location there!


The false front of this green--380 yard par 4 is not "pinnable".  I've had some ask why not flatten it to provide for hole locations  
Maybe I'm off base but do some people just not "get it"

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Chris,

I thought the greens at Rivermont, including those you have pictured, were an absolute blast to play.  I have no problem at all with severely sloped greens as long as they are kept at a reasonable speed with fair hole locations - as was the case the day I played.  In fact, I remember riding towards the clubhouse after finishing on 18 and wishing that I could go back out and play it again.  It would be a shame to see the greens dumbed down.

[Chris Cupit]

Better pics of the first two:

[Ken Moum]

As long as you have an owner committed to reasonable speeds, aren't undulations more fun to putt?

Just last weekend I played twice at Cottonwood Hills, near Hutchinson, KS, which has a number of wildly undulating greens and it was a hoot.

In fact, as our three-ball was hard on the heels of the group in front, and several holes ahead of those behind, we spent some time on about hald the holes goofing around trying putts from "interesting" places.

Last month we did the same thing at Black Mesa.

I wish I could play greens like that every day.

Ken

[Brock Peyer]

Chris, thanks for the pix, your greens and course look great.  I played Mike's Heritage yesterday and everyone I know says those greens are too severe, I like them a lot, they make you think and I have played more severe greens, this game would be boring if every putt were straight and firm.

[J_ Crisham]

Chris, I felt the severity of your greens were certainly not unplayable or unfair by any stretch. I felt a couple of the false fronts really forced one to practice more precise distance control on the approach. The pace of the greens was commensurate with the  existing slopes. Both Kyleand I really were impressed with your course. I hope rain comes your way.Enjoy your holidays -I talked with Kyle to see if you have interest in a Spring trip possibly Pasatiempo ,Harding Park, Olympic Club,Monterey Pen.CC? Let us know. Also I've arranged for us to play at Olympia Fields, Medinah,possibly Chicago GC, and as much golf at Beverlyas you like. Hopefully when things get toasty in Atlanta you come up next summer.

[Chris Cupit]

I'm in.

Not a real hard decision.

Thanks again for the book.

[Chris Cupit]

I've had some people remark that some putts were "impossible" and of course that's the whole point from certain locations.  If you put your ball in the wrong spot in my mind you are supposed to be dead--meaning your next shot may have to be away from the hole or risk being farther away than when you started.

Of course this assumes the shot gives you a reasonable chance to put the ball in the "correct" spot.  But the correct spot may mean the best you can do is 15 feet--I don't think every hole must allow a "perfect" shot to get within gimmee range.  

I think as long as the ball will come to rest within 3 feet or so of the hole everything is fine even if it means a three footer must be played "outside the hole".

[Chris Cupit]

Chris, thanks for the pix, your greens and course look great.  I played Mike's Heritage yesterday and everyone I know says those greens are too severe, I like them a lot, they make you think and I have played more severe greens, this game would be boring if every putt were straight and firm.

Heritage is very difficult.  I find it has a lot of tiers that are very severe and I tend to prefer greens that are more "rolling" and less tiered.

I think tiers are next to impossible for poorer golfers whereas rolls, while difficult, are a little more manageable.  Rolls also seem to allow bump shots and I found myself having shots at Heritage that demanded a flop shot perfectly executed to stay on the proper level.

Heritage may be the most difficult daily fee I've played.

[TEPaul]

Chris:

If some people are suggesting that most greenspace undulations be removed and turned into pinnable greenspace that's both madness and remarkably stupid and in many cases could completely wreck some green architecture.

It's a good question about how much or how little greenspace should be pinnable and how much should be used for other purposes such as transitioning the ball around greenspace to pinnable positions.

We worry these days about greens that are too fast in even pinnable areas but the real danger is the speeds on some of these nonpinnable transition area undulations.

The point is on those undulations on greens that are really fast the ball will build up too much speed and not stop when it arrives at pinnable areas.

When greens get to that point you then have what we've come to call "greens within a green"----eg if you don't hit your approach into the correct green within the green you're chances of two putting are very low. This is probably too intense for most golfers but the truth is it really is highly strategic.

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