News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« on: July 30, 2002, 07:07:59 PM »
I am not particularly fond of the expression "a walk in the park" when it relates to golf courses. When a Green Committee member uses that expression, invariably there are flower beds, excessive plantings, tree encroachment, the fairways are green and soft from overwatering, blah, blah, blah.

However, there is an exception where a walk in a park is an apt description and that is at Cape Breton Highlands Links. The golf course, which is a 7 plus mile walk,  is set through a National Park and along the way, you may see whales in the Atlantic, bear, deer,  mountains, river beds - everything!

Along with several other Thompson courses, CBH is surely deserving to be considered amongst the world's dozen or so most scenic courses thanks to its diversity of settings. The pictures in the course profile don't begin to capture the real beauty of the place as we had fairly patchy weather but you'll get the idea.

Layer on top of the setting a Stanley Thompson routing/design and it's a safe bet that you have a special and unique golf course.

In addition, Jeff Mingay has contributed an In My Opinion piece that details the virtues of the three shot 16th hole at CBH. In it, he makes the very interesting observation as to how the relatively recent addition of an irrigation system has affected a particular playing attribute of the course.

I wish more people could have joined us at our June GolfClubAtlas.com get-together there. May be next time as we'll definitely be returning to this magical part of the world.

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2002, 08:15:28 PM »
Ran,
Great profile, great course.

You made a good point that this course is not THAT far for many in the east.  It is well worth the trip, and surely one of the more inexpensive top 100 in the world to see.

On another note, those who are enthralled with Thompson's work have many great courses to come north of the border for.

As for the course, I thought Jeff Mingay's article was great at outlining the 16th as a super par five.  Amazing to believe that a course can cause such a debate over what par five is the strongest.  Truly has to be considered among the best set in the world.  After always having appreciated the seventh, I really began to like the 15th more on this trip, far more strategy than I had remembered.

As for the none architecture points of the trip, a great time with Jeff, Ran and Noel was had.  As well as the great people welcomed us.  Joe Robinson (pro) and Tom Forsythe (GM) are both well worth meeting on the trip.  

Look forward to the next GCA outing.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David_Tepper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2002, 08:33:32 PM »
Thanks for highlighting this wonderful course. I was there 11 years ago. What a truly wonderul spot. I hope your profile encourages more golfers to make to trip up there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Mike_Cirba

Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2002, 08:45:47 PM »
WOW!!!  

My deepest regrets at missing this trip. :(

So many modern courses that are relegated to available rugged land crossing difficult topography and lengthy stretches between holes seem to use that fact as some type of excuse for achieving something less than ideal.

It seems Stanley Thompson simply saw this as an opportunity to let the land speak for itself.  
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Bruceski

Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2002, 08:49:58 PM »
Now THERE's a place I'm going to visit soon!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Scott_Burroughs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2002, 09:17:12 PM »
OK, I'll ask the inevitable.  Who's who in the pics?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2002, 04:53:09 AM »
I have done many pilgrimages over the last year and the one to Cape Breton was very special.  I find myself weeks after visiting thinking about going back up there.  

Thankfully, Ran's pictures do the course justice (although I never got to see that great weather except for a little while).  The hospitality we received and the overall
experience are ones more people on the site should experience.  As for the merits of the 16th, Mr. Mingay and Mr. Dewar might recall a little 3rd shot wedge from a wee
American on the far right side of the course in the wet rough to 2 feet.  The subsequent birdie sealed the deal for Ran and I (the guys in the white hats) as they defeated the Canadians. ;D

Meeting Ben and Jeff was great fun as well as was seeing all the wildlife and the scenery.  Hopefully the profile will lure more of you guys up to the great white north.  And try the lobster..It isnt too bad.. :D
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Mingay

Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2002, 05:42:29 AM »
I missed that little wedge shot, Noel... undoubtedly looking for my own ball in the trees on the left! Don't bring a hook to Highlands Links... trust me  :'(

Ran's profile does indeed capture the brilliance of Highlands Links. It's a magnificent golf course in a magical setting. I know that sounds dramatic, even goofy, but it's true.

Highlands Links is a "must see" for serious golfers, particularly students of course architecture, who should also watch the tape of a 1964 Shell's Wonderful World of Golf match played at Highlands Links between Canadian touring pros George Knudson and Al Balding. With the wind blowing hard off of the Atlantic, there's some wonderful shot-making to be seen.

The video also shows the original bunker styling, which has unfortunately been lost. That's one of very few criticisms I have for Highlands Links -- the bunkers are too bland these days. They've lbeen transformed into more regular forms and are perfectly edged, thus far too "clean" looking for the setting in which they exist. The inherent nature of the Highlands Links proerty is rugged. Ideally, so should the bunkers be.

Oh well. The brilliance of Highlands Links lies in Thompson's routing. As Mike Cirba states above, the architect truly let "the land speak for itself." I'd say the back-to-back par 5s at the 6th and 7th, consecutive short par 4s at the 8th and 9th followed by a 121-yard drop shot par 3 at 10, and back-to-back par 5s again at the 15th and 16th illustrate this point clearly.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #8 on: August 01, 2002, 12:06:57 PM »
Nobody can read Darwin and not be struck by the allure of how golf courses and train travel were intertwined way back when.

How cool would a two week train trip be that started in Vancouver with a round at Capilano, followed by Jasper and Banff in Alberta , then east for a few days across Saskatchewan and Manitoba to St. George's in Ontario and then northeast to somewhere near Cape Breton Island?

The architecture of those five courses coupled with the breathtaking scenery would stay with one for a lifetime.

Maybe GCA.com should rent a train?  ;)

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ouch

Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #9 on: August 01, 2002, 12:09:26 PM »
as long as it's not through amtrak!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #10 on: August 01, 2002, 01:19:30 PM »
Ran,
It would be surprisingly easy, with the exception of Banff, you would not even need to a rent a car.
The train literally travels through Jasper (Banff being 3 to 4 hours south) and through the heart of downtown Toronto, with the last stop on the line being Sydney.

Great idea, I am sure VIA (our safer version of Amtrack) is actually quite a reasonable way to travel.  Additionally, you would see the significance of the railway to Canadian golf.

The train also goes through Montreal and Quebec, which are home to two Willie Park courses that have garnered some attention.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #11 on: August 01, 2002, 10:36:04 PM »
Scott,
To answer your question.

Jeff is the one constantly posing with his picturesque swing, I am the one in khakis waiting for him to hit his shot.

Joe Robinson (Head Pro) is the other person.

Noel did not make the cut, not because of his goofy hat, but because we could not see each other in the rain, let alone take a picture.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Dunlop_White

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #12 on: August 01, 2002, 11:25:17 PM »
Cape Breton's course profile tops the one for Prairie Dunes. That is difficult to do! Great job!

I am kicking myself for not attending this voyage! The broken, tumbling fairways look magnificent. They remind me of Mike Miller's (the artist) piece of work of Hole 6 at Westward Ho. The link is below:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/royalnorthdevon000193.html

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2002, 02:59:26 PM »
Ben/Jeff/Anyone,

How then do you compare the merits of Stanley Thompson's work at his Big Five? Obviously, each property has its own unique merits/features but how do you differentiate the quality of those five designs?

Which site has the best topography? Soil? Which course has the finest greens? Bunkering? Strategy?

I am blinded by Thompson's genius so that I struggle to make clear distinctions - all five are superlative!

I assume there is no doubt that they are the five finest courses in Canada, despite what any national ranking  :-/ might say up there?

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ben Cowan-Dewar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2002, 02:52:58 PM »
Ran,
I have not seen Capilano in years and frankly do not remember it.  I hope to get some pictures when I am there in a couple of weeks.

As for the other courses, I cannot say how much I agree that Thompson's courses are the five strongest in Canada.  

Banff Springs and Cape Breton have to be considered among the best settings in golf, though Jasper and Capilano could lay claim.  Banff Springs is set in the Bow River valley and is the ideal mountain setting, with the Bow River and elevation change.  Cape Breton is the notorious ocean/mountain setting, and due to the diversity it might win.  St. Georges (which currently ranks 1st on Score's list) is the least dramatic of the five.

Bunkering is the weakest part of CBH, and one of the stronger parts of BS and JP.  When I was at BS last year, I was amazed at how great the bunkers looked, very much in the Thompson style.  JP also has wonderful bunkers, and their restoration recently (handled in house by the supt.)  The bunkering on 2, 4, 5 (with the restored fairway bunker), 9, 11, 15 and 18 are very strong.  

Greens would have to go to Cape Breton in my mind, subtle and wonderful.  As I believe you mentioned, they have never been a central part of the conversation of CBH, but deserve to be.

Soil (again excluding Cap) would probably have to go to St. George's, which has to be considered among the best-conditioned golf courses in Canada.  The advantage that SG has is the geographic location relatively, as BS, JP and CBH all face shortened seasons and variable weather.

Strategy is a tough one.  I think Thompson has done such a great job with strategic choices, though many complain that Jasper has become too short to really see the true strategy, I tend to agree somewhat.  The fairway bunker on five (easily carried now, but great prior), the 18th in general are two examples.  Cape Breton may be the strongest, the par fives present so many option alone.  Holes that stand out for me (aside from the par fives) are:
2 - A super par four, with plenty of strategy of the tee, plus an excellent green complex.
3- The ridge in the green is enough to ponder.
4- From the old tee, excellent (thou I cannot imagine you would go for it that often.)
5- The ability to use the slope would be something I would hope to see restored.
8 - Go for it or not?
9 - Placement with the tee shot cannot be stressed.
13 - Great hole, great choices.

Plus, the par fives are all a lesson in strategy.

I am going to have to go and play St. Georges again soon; I have not been there recently.  I feel I did not pay it enough service.

Ran,
You have played all five, what are your thoughts?  Not from a ranking standpoint, but of those features?

I hate to have to rank them, because I would not want to put any of them last.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jeff Mingay

Re: Cape Breton Highlands course profile is posted
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2002, 05:51:36 AM »
Ran,

As you know, the brilliance of Thompson's "big 5" starts with the inherent characteristics of the properties at Capilano, Jasper, Banff, St. George's and Highlands Links.

Of course, still, there are golf architects who could have "screwed up". Thompson took full advantage of all five properties with intelligent routings that made the most of the best natural golfing features.

Each of these five courses are so different from one another, it's difficult to compare them.

As for the best topography? I think St. George's might be best. It's nearly perfect for golf: not to hilly, just enough up-and-down combined with smaller contours in the fairway and in and around the greens to not over tax golfers and still provide a superb challenge.

Jasper and Highlands Links are close seconds. Although, thinking about it quickly, the back nine at Capilano isn't too shabby either! Banff is undoubtedly the least interesting topography, set down in a relatively flat river valley.

What's most interesting about Banff though is Thompson's bunkering schemes. Of the five courses, Banff most blatantly exhibits an "in your face" style of bunkering. Whereas Thompson was able to allow the inherent contour of the other five properties affect play, at Banff he placed bunkers in the direct line to the hole on many holes, presumably in light of the relative absence of dramatic contour and elevation change there.

Amazingly, only one of the sites (St. George's) was blessed with decent soil, as I understand. Capilano, Jasper, Banff and Highlands Links were all very, very rugged, rocky properties, extremely difficult to work with. Does this make Thompson's accomplishments in these locales event more amazing? I'm thinking, yes.

Thompson's best routing? Tough one. All five courses are brilliantly routed. If I had to nomiate one, Highlands Links.

Best greens? Highlands Links.

Best bunkering schemes? Banff.

Bunker styling? Probably Highlands Links, as shown in the 1965 Shell's "Wonderful World of Golf" Film. (Please note, the bunkers are quite a bit more "stale" these days. They're far different looking than they were originally.)

My ranking of Thompson's "big 5" changes daily. At this moment though, for the sake of discussion, I'll say it goes like this (subject to immediate change):

1 Highlands Links
2 St. George's
3 Jasper
4 Capilano
5 Banff
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »