[Ryan Farrow]

Would abolishing the golf cart restore/renovate the image of golf and golfers in the United States. Would we see a change in demographics as a result, class/age/gender/race?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Has it done so at walking only sites?

[Kyle Harris]

Ryan,

The golf cart is banned for competition. I think the only way the golf cart could see restricted use is if the USGA were to not consider rounds of golf played with a golf cart for GHIN Handicapping purposes, or perhaps if some sort of modifier were placed on rounds   with a cart.  

The other issue, is of course, ADA considerations.

[Garland Bayley]

Ryan,

Is my thinking similar to your thinking? Golf is expensive for most of the population. These people see the golf cart as just one more added expense. The also see it used by the vast majority of golfers at courses they might think about frequenting. Therefore, they bag it. They don't want to pay the expense for something they feel they are almost obligated to use.

[Kyle Harris]

Garland,

We're on the same page. In fact, I make it a point to call Lederach (Muni in Harleysville, PA) once a week and ask for a tee time during the week at around 11AM for a walker.

Carts are mandatory and I am told as such.

When I ask why, I am told the course is a long, difficult walk.

I then tell them I feel that is my determination, as a customer, to make and thank them for their time.

Pity, Lederach is a fun place.

[Tim Bert]

Has anyone seen the latest childhood obesity statistics in our country.  American children want to play video games and watch TV - not walk golf courses.

Abolishing golf carts would be catastrophic to the national interest in the game.

Bring the golf back to the people?  You've literally got to bring the golf to the people.  A better idea would be to move to all simulators.  In the future, a computer programming degree will be the only pre-requisite for golf.  As soon as EA Sports perfects Tiger Woods golf for the Nintendo Wii, golf as we know it will change for good.  

[Garland Bayley]

I guess I have to cross Lederach off my list.  

[Jason Mandel]

Garland,

We're on the same page. In fact, I make it a point to call Lederach (Muni in Harleysville, PA) once a week and ask for a tee time during the week at around 11AM for a walker.

Carts are mandatory and I am told as such.

When I ask why, I am told the course is a long, difficult walk.

I then tell them I feel that is my determination, as a customer, to make and thank them for their time.

Pity, Lederach is a fun place.

Kyle,

Are you doing this while living in Florida?  

I agree thats an awful policy.

I like to walk most of the time as well, but I absolutely think there is nothing wrong with carts.  bottom line is there would be a lot less people playing the game if there were no golf carts.  You know it and I know it.

I have friends that wouldn't consider walking with a caddie, yet along carrying there bag.  Would you rather these people not play the game?

Jason

[Jason Connor]

I'm moving to Florida and have been contacting numerous clubs regarding membership.

After I get information I always ask their walking policy.

Here's a recent email I received from the membership director at the Golden Bear Club at Keene's Point:

"Hi Jason.  The only time they don't mind if you walk the course is
really during the summer after 3 pm.  Other than that, it's a driving
course."

So the one time you can walk is the hottest times during the hottest months.

I thanked her for her responses and expressed my regret that I can't consider a course without a very liberal walking policy.

[Ryan Farrow]

Jason, absolutely.

[Jason Mandel]

Jason, absolutely.

Ryan,
I'f i'm not mistaken your in school to be a superintendent or architect.  Less golfers mean less courses to maintain or design.  Golf is headed that way...  

[Tim Bert]

I'll try to be more serious this time.

One of my biggest factors in the golf course decision process for me was walking ploicy.  We are allowed to walk at any time, which unfortunately is probably more of the exception in the South than the rule.

I hate not being given the choice to walk.  I think a large number of course adopting a "no walkers" policy could certainly be detrimental to drawing newcomers to the game.  

That being said, I have no problem for carts for others.  I think that for the majority of golfers carts speed things up as long as they are not path-only.  As long as the guys in front of me (and with me) are moving along, I don't care if they are walking or riding.  I don't think carts are one of the big barriers to bringing people to the game.

[Kyle Harris]

Jason, absolutely.

Ryan,
I'f i'm not mistaken your in school to be a superintendent or architect.  Less golfers mean less courses to maintain or design.  Golf is headed that way...  

Ryan and I both see the writing on the walls in that regard. I think that's why we're trying to get different viewpoints in there.

And yes, I still call from Florida. It just gets too far, and I like Lederach a lot.

I found Long Shadow to be very walkable, did you?

[Jason Connor]

Sometimes when I'm someone's guest or playing a new course that requires carts I frequently even offer to pay the cart fee but walk.

It's very rare they allow this.  So basically I throw my bag on a cart and end up doing a lot of walking anyway.  Walking from my approach shot to the green, walking from green to next tee, etc.  Particularly if it's with a friend or relative who I know doesn't mind that.   In a way it's nice, I get to walk but without having to carry my bag.


My complaint with carts is that people don't know how to use them optimally.  I live on a private club and see it out my window all the time (I work from home so I watch the 7th hole at Harbour Trees all the time).

Cart partners' balls will be 20 yards apart.  Driver will drive up to the first ball.  Get out, do his preshot routine, hit his ball, clean his club, get back in his cart and drive 20 yards to the other ball and let out the 2nd golfer.  Then he will do the same thing.

What should have been 15 seconds, max, between those two balls being struck is now probably 90 seconds or more.

If they'd have been walking they'd have hit their shots 15 seconds apart.

On many courses with tees close to greens, I really don't believe carts speed anything up, and often times may slow things down.

[Ryan Farrow]

Jason, absolutely.

Ryan,
I'f i'm not mistaken your in school to be a superintendent or architect.  Less golfers mean less courses to maintain or design.  Golf is headed that way...  

Your correct but, this country could loose a few less golf courses, especially in the desert!!!! Where playing golf w/o a cart can cause death.

Has anyone thought about the energy being used to charge or power all of these golf carts on the 1,000's of golf courses we have in this country. When we could all be walking from hole to hole and playing on golf courses that are actually designed so people can easily walk a golf course. Just think about it, we have marginalized the game of golf to a point where people don't even consider it a physical activity.

[Tim Bert]

I found Long Shadow to be very walkable, did you?

I was able to walk it both days, and by definition I'd say it is walkable.  I wouldn't want to walk 36 each day.

I think that most golfers who choose to walk fairly regularly but still go back and forth to carts would choose to ride it pretty exclusively after their first hike around the property.  The walk from 9 green to 10 tee is a death march.  It took much more out of me than the much debated trek up to 14 tee at Bandon Trails.

[Kyle Harris]

I guess I approach walking from a caddy's perspective... do enough of it and it really doesn't become all that bad at all. As with any athletic skill, practice makes perfect and there is definitely a separate skill set involved with walking a golf course as opposed to riding.

[Phil_the_Author]

Kyle - "I found Long Shadow to be very walkable, did you?"

Tim - "I was able to walk it both days, and by definition I'd say it is walkable."

I was unable to walk it when I played it with Mike Young last spring and needed a cart... And then I had my triple-bypass in September.

Having serious health issues can change one's perspective on the walking vs. cart issue overnight...

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle - "I found Long Shadow to be very walkable, did you?"

Tim - "I was able to walk it both days, and by definition I'd say it is walkable."

I was unable to walk it when I played it with Mike Young last spring and needed a cart... And then I had my triple-bypass in September.

Having serious health issues can change one's perspective on the walking vs. cart issue overnight...

Phil,

That's very much agreed. I think we rode the Red Course together, but I don't remember - which is probably a good thing. One thing that golf does have going for it is that golf carts do allow access to some that may not be able to participate in other athletic events.

I don't think that's the point in contention here, though.

[John Foley]

Ryan,

I don't see how abolishing the cart would bring down the green fee's to make golf more affordable or the activity any quicker.

Affordability and time are the biggest issues to making golf acceptable to a larger swath of the population.

I'm very glad to see more walkers than ever these days. More excersize for everyone involved is a very good thing.

However riding a cart is here to stay and it's never going away.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Would abolishing the golf cart restore/renovate the image of golf and golfers in the United States. Would we see a change in demographics as a result, class/age/gender/race?

Yeah.

All those people with bad backs, knees and hips, along with those with heart and lung problems, and those who can't tote a 20 pound bag wouldn't be able to play.[/color]

[Phil_the_Author]

Kyle,

I disagree with your contention that, "One thing that golf does have going for it is that golf carts do allow access to some that may not be able to participate in other athletic events... I don't think that's the point in contention here, though."

The original question contained 2 parts. The second was , "Would we see a change in demographics as a result, class/age/gender/race?"

Those whose health no longer allows them to walk in order to play golf is a substantial demographic and important revenue source for most, if not all, golf clubs. What are the weekly revenues generated by those that fall into this category, especially those who regularly play during mid-week?

[John Kavanaugh]

Funny how many insistent walkers also either have half lockers or no locker at all.  Nothing to do with being cheap...nooooooo.  That's the way to bring back golfers, eliminate the locker fee.

[Kyle Harris]

Kyle,

I disagree with your contention that, "One thing that golf does have going for it is that golf carts do allow access to some that may not be able to participate in other athletic events... I don't think that's the point in contention here, though."

The original question contained 2 parts. The second was , "Would we see a change in demographics as a result, class/age/gender/race?"

Those whose health no longer allows them to walk in order to play golf is a substantial demographic and important revenue source for most, if not all, golf clubs. What are the weekly revenues generated by those that fall into this category, especially those who regularly play during mid-week?

Good point Phil, and I forgot that Ryan had asked that. But I don't think he'd be banning the cart for those with medical reasons. I don't think the Scottish do that even.

[Garland Bayley]

Do you think I would be wrong in asserting that when most people walked, golf grew. Now that most people ride, golf is shrinking?

I think there is no proof that carts bring more people to the game.

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