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Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2002, 01:12:35 PM »
LI Golfer:  Any modern architect can screw up a good piece of property.  I hate to bring up Fazio because any modern architect asked to build a minimalistic course is out of their element.  I played The Preserve in Carmel Valley and even though I don't think it was as bad as some thought, Fazio still graded the fairways to be like Augusta.  Nicklaus did the same at Mayacama and I fear he would do the same thing next to NGLA.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2002, 01:57:57 PM »
Li Golf,

There are a number of architects that I would like to see get the project, but, the die has been cast, and Nicklaus will do the project, so wishful thinking is irrelavant, or a hippopotamus, whichever you prefer.   :)

I don't share your optimism and enthusiasm, but perhaps you've muted your views on the finished product knowing who will design the course, in the context of their previous work/style.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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K.Hegland

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #77 on: May 11, 2002, 02:23:36 PM »
Slag,
The other 19 or so members are all close friends of mine!  It'll be special, I can't wait to get back up there.

Tony,
I was waiting for you to chime in on this.  I'm thinking about being "Up North" in Late August/Early Sept, so if your in the area, let me know.  I don't think there is a guest policy, but I'm sure you could sweet talk the owner ;D.  Just think of this; morning tee time at "the Downs", late afternoon at Plattalia, then a night on the town, couldn't ask for much more.  As for a GCA profile, I would have to pass that with "El Presidente", maybe he'll let me use it as my home course :o
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Gib_Papazian

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #78 on: May 11, 2002, 03:49:00 PM »
Personally, I cannot think of any worse pressure on an architect than being handed that particular piece of land in that neighborhood.

Atlantic CC was not on a great site (and inland besides) so it is difficult to make an apple to apples comparison.

Mayacama is terrific, no doubt, but let's remember that standing in the pro shop at NGLA, Nicklaus was the guy who asked Pete Dye: "Who is Seth Raynor?"

A Nicklaus course next to Shinnecock, NGLA and Southampton GC?

The very soul of golf shrieks.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #79 on: May 11, 2002, 04:38:03 PM »
We all know that Nicklaus is a big name in architecture and hasn't had a chance on the island, but would we rather have another Rees course(next to NGLA and Shinny) or and Nicklaus. I personally vote neither, but........
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #80 on: May 11, 2002, 05:21:45 PM »
Anthony,

I agree with Gib, the pressure to produce, next to NGLA and Shinnecock will be enormous, almost a no win situation, unless a course is built that fits in with its neighbors, in style and challenge.

One could be led to believe that only an architect that places the site and its neighbor's designs first, and their ego last, will produce a course of merit.

But, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #81 on: May 11, 2002, 05:28:11 PM »
How many truely great courses have been built since WWII that were in close proximity to a world top 30. Maybe none!!

Kingsbarns... Old Course
Spyglass... CPC, PB
Columbus, OH  3 great modern courses near each other
Trump National....Winged Foot :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:05 PM by -1 »
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brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #82 on: May 11, 2002, 05:30:08 PM »
Ran, what do you think? Hutchinson KS??? :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Greg P.

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2002, 03:12:31 PM »
David,
Wow the location of Dos Pueblos looks incredible.  Is the site interesting? It must be if Coore and Crenshaw took the job.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2002, 06:57:22 PM »
An architect who places the site first and his ego last?

Hmmmmm?


Walked Friar's Head yesterday. If I remember correctly I think the guys name is Bill Coore.

You can't imagine how beautifully this man worked with this land. I never thought anyone could have built a golf course that could stand up to the two local behemoths Shinnecock and NGLA - but it does!!!!!

Pure classical golf architecture appearing as a Pine Valley-Cypress meld.

Somehow I MUST contact the developer of Bayberry Land and try to convince him to use Bill Coore and Ben Crenshaw. I must.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

brad_miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2002, 07:03:12 PM »
Gene, you think they'ed touch another east end job, though I heard they wouldn't do another Neb  project either? Calling Doak and Hanse?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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GeoffreyC

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #86 on: May 13, 2002, 08:39:43 AM »
On Long Island there is obviously a population base that can build and support several/many elite/great golf courses.  The addition of Friars Head to the already crowded list of NGLA, SH, Maidstone, yada yada yada ... proves this in spades.

We've talked about some other more out of the way places with great properties.  I recently saw a whole lot of photos of a piece of land very close to Prarie Dunes in Kansas.  The land looks amazing with pure sand base, blowouts and elevation changes.  Its pretty clear that a golf course is right there to be found that could rival its neighbor.

Its one thing to support a course with a good population base but what kind of support would a private national membership course get in Kansas if it really were one of the 10 best new courses built in the last 50 years?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #87 on: May 13, 2002, 10:38:42 AM »
Geoff -

They seem to have made it work at Sand Hills. If total construction costs are kept under control, it wouldn't seem too tough.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Archie

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #88 on: May 13, 2002, 10:48:30 AM »
If the economics require a true top 10 modern course, maybe you need to think that last statement through. It isn't that easy, even with great land. Sand Hills is one of the most unique properties in the world, there is nothing in Hutchinson KS anywhere near that remote, which is part of Sand Hills charm.

That being said, the KS project would be near another world top 20 golf experience and is only 45 minutes from Wichita airport, and if memory serves me right there is a long runway in Hutchinson.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Roger

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #89 on: August 12, 2002, 01:17:21 AM »
I believe the plan is to build a new course in Carne by the end of the decade, starting with an extra nine holes.

I think they will probably employ Pat Ruddy, maybe Donald Steel (due to involvements with other West Coast Links courses). Cost will be a major consideration, of course, as it is a community project.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Paul P

Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #90 on: August 12, 2002, 10:14:47 AM »
You were reading the Links magazine article. Carne has excellent land to build a new course or new nine on.

From the article:

"The current 18, with its sparely beautiful, hand-built look, came on line in the early 1990s and occupies 130 of the club’s 260-acre site. Eamon Mangan, a one-time furniture retailer turned course manager, expects to see a second nine built at Carne in the coming years, followed by one final 9--to make two brawny links courses--by the end of the decade."

Geoffrey,
Hackett built the course he did due to bugetary constraints. It is more expensive to route the links through the dunes. Also, the shear size of them would make 18 holes exhausting without a buggy.

I doubt American architects will invited to design a new course unless they would do it for the shear pleasure. Hackett did a remarkable job.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Where's the next great one located ?
« Reply #91 on: August 12, 2002, 10:25:52 AM »
When did Nicklaus make the comment about Seth Raynor? That sounds somewhat improbable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
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