Yale in the Top 10

[JESII]

In my best Seve accent -

I slice...I hit a tree...I skull...I flub...I chip...I miss six footer...I tap in...

[Mike Sweeney]

I hit a tree...

Now you take down those trees and it becomes a 330 yard shot to the center of the green (according to google) with OB and it gets really interesting as an opener for the US Open!

[JESII]

I can say, it would be sad if they bring in that fairway to 28 yards for the tournament...that wide area must be close to 50 across, but if you bring in the fairway the bunkers would seem to be swimming out there all alone.

[wsmorrison]

David Gookin,

I look forward to the day we can play golf together.  I know we've tried a few times, but let's succeed next year.  A home and home would be great.  Maybe you'll convince me that Yale only loses -15

Mike,

You're a funny guy.  Hey, I was only at Yale once and it was freezing!  Bill Dow and I met Dr. Love, I mean Childs, and had a great time.  You're photo is so much better, but the underlying architecture is unchanged.

"Clearly it is not a Hugh Wilson hole!"

Of course not.  It was built 4 years after Wilson died...in time for the 1930 Amateur.  The hole that preceded this Flynn hole teed off from the other side of the clubhouse and was a dogleg left to a green just left of the present one.

Sully,

Sue was just asking me what was so funny as I was laughing out loud imagining you foozling around the 1st and recounting the strokes in your best Seve accent.

[Jon Spaulding]

WM, was your photo taken by Tim Burton? Here's a photo of the first green @ Yale. There's a bit more to this than just the left-side pin.....the right side pin is fantastic, especially with firm greens. It forces a decision on the tee shot....do we play towards the trouble on the right in order to allow for the ground option, or bail out left and come into this pin with a short iron from a very tough angle over the fronting bunker. Pretty good offering for a first hole.

The first @ Merion looks to have a fine decision on the tee as well, regarding the length & preferred line to the green.

[Phil Benedict]

When Sports Illustrated did its best 18 holes back in the '60's the opener was Merion #1.  Not that this is conclusive.  Merion's sixteenth was also selected.  Merion was the only course with two holes, leading the author (Dan Jenkins I believe) to declare it the best course in America.

I live for opportunities to dredge up trivia like this.

[Bill Brightly]

I loved that book! I used to look at those pictures all the time as a kid. Wish I still had it. Pine Valley, Pebble Beach, Winged Foot, Olympia, Cyress, Oak Hill? what other courses were in that?

[Mike_Cirba]

When Sports Illustrated did its best 18 holes back in the '60's the opener was Merion #1.  Not that this is conclusive.  Merion's sixteenth was also selected.  Merion was the only course with two holes, leading the author (Dan Jenkins I believe) to declare it the best course in America.

I live for opportunities to dredge up trivia like this.

Phil,

So do I.  

However, the second Merion hole in Dan Jenkins' SI "Best 18" series was the Baffling Brook 11th hole!   The 16th hole was from Oakland Hills.

Don't ask me how I know...

Oh, ok...ask.  

It's because I bought the board game as a kid and played it endlessly.



Don't ask me how many times I also read (and mostly stared at the pictures) the 1971 SI issue that previewed the coming US Open at Merion, titled "The Ghosts Of Merion"?

Oh...probably in total time a man-year or two.

Obviously, I wasn't doing real well with the chicks at the time, but hey..I was 13 and in love!!

[Mike Tanner]

In order of appearance:
Merion Golf Club, Scioto Country Club, Olympic Country Club, Baltusrol Golf Club, Colonial Country Club, Seminole Golf Club, Pine Valley Golf Club,Prairie Dunes Country Club, Champions Golf Club, Winged Foot Golf Club, Merion again, Augusta National Golf Club, The Dunes Golf and Beach Club, Cherry Hills Country Club, Oakmont Country Club, Oakland Hills Country Club, Quail Creek Golf and Country Club, and Pebble Beach Golf Links.

I've only seen Oakmont in person, but I wonder which of these should still be listed in the "Best 18 Holes in America?" What others, built since the book was published in 1966, should be included?  

[Mike_Cirba]

You can see the 11th at Merion on the top of the upturned 3 hole gameboard.



Playing firm and fast as I recall, although perhaps a bit more green than I'd like to see it.  

[Phil Benedict]

The holes that most easily stand the test of time are the par 3's.  The 10th at WFW and 12th at ANGC play may require one less club but they offer the same challenge now as they did in the '60's.

Mike: You got me on the right holes at Merion but thinking it was the second hole was the 16th is an understandable mistake.  We talking 40m years ago!

[Mike Tanner]

The holes that most easily stand the test of time are the par 3's.  The 10th at WFW and 12th at ANGC play may require one less club but they offer the same challenge now as they did in the '60's.

Mike: You got me on the right holes at Merion but thinking it was the second hole was the 16th is an understandable mistake.  We talking 40m years ago!

Phil:
I have a copy of the book in my library.There's no way I could remember all that 40 minutes after I read it, much less (more?) after 40 years.

[Jeff Loh]

the 8th at Prairie Dunes holds up well after all these years, esp into the wind.
i have a copy of the book, too. stole it from the library when i was 12 years old. dont ask.........

[Bill Brightly]

The par 3 4th at Baltustrol still belongs. (For those who don't know, thats the mid-iron shot over a pond with a multi-section green.)

To me, that hole design is the "black dress" of par 3's: Simple, elegant, enticing and dangerous...a classic.

[George Pazin]

In order of appearance:
Merion Golf Club, Scioto Country Club, Olympic Country Club, Baltusrol Golf Club, Colonial Country Club, Seminole Golf Club, Pine Valley Golf Club,Prairie Dunes Country Club, Champions Golf Club, Winged Foot Golf Club, Merion again, Augusta National Golf Club, The Dunes Golf and Beach Club, Cherry Hills Country Club, Oakmont Country Club, Oakland Hills Country Club, Quail Creek Golf and Country Club, and Pebble Beach Golf Links.

I've only seen Oakmont in person, but I wonder which of these should still be listed in the "Best 18 Holes in America?" What others, built since the book was published in 1966, should be included?  

You could replace almost any of those holes with Oakmont's hole of the same number and be safe. I'm guessing the same for Merion and PV and Shinnecock. Come to think of it, I can't believe there aren't any Shinnecock holes - guess Dan didn't make it up there.

[corey miller]

Though it is a fine hole, I would have to vote off the 4th at Baltusrol only because of it's offspring:

Round Hill #11
Sleepy Hollow #10- a hole the Ran M. spotted yesterday from 200 yards away while walking #9 his comment "how unfortunate".
Woodway #9

I am sure that there were many more "copies" of #4 Baltusrol that remain scars on many classic era courses, though now they are probably called "signature" holes.

[Bill Brightly]

Corey,

Wait a minute...you vote off a hole because of it's offspring? That does not seem fair...


And you need to tell us what par 3 you are replacing it with and why!

[Jay Flemma]

In the Letters to the Editor of the current issue of either Golf Magazine or Golf Digest, there is an absolutely scathing comment on Yale. Has anyone else read it?

Bob

I read it and I don't believe it for a second, I think it was a troll.

[Bill Brightly]

Jay,

It was discussed at length on first page of this thread. You might like reading the Superintendent's explanation, which someone posted.

[Mike Tanner]

In order of appearance:
Merion Golf Club, Scioto Country Club, Olympic Country Club, Baltusrol Golf Club, Colonial Country Club, Seminole Golf Club, Pine Valley Golf Club,Prairie Dunes Country Club, Champions Golf Club, Winged Foot Golf Club, Merion again, Augusta National Golf Club, The Dunes Golf and Beach Club, Cherry Hills Country Club, Oakmont Country Club, Oakland Hills Country Club, Quail Creek Golf and Country Club, and Pebble Beach Golf Links.

I've only seen Oakmont in person, but I wonder which of these should still be listed in the "Best 18 Holes in America?" What others, built since the book was published in 1966, should be included?  

You could replace almost any of those holes with Oakmont's hole of the same number and be safe. I'm guessing the same for Merion and PV and Shinnecock. Come to think of it, I can't believe there aren't any Shinnecock holes - guess Dan didn't make it up there.

George,
I can't speak to Dan's methodology, but there is a list of his 54 "Almost Best" holes in the epilogue. Included are Oakmont nos. 8 and 18, Merion nos. 4 and 16, Pine Valley nos. 5, 13, 14, 15 and 18, Shinnecock nos. 10, 16, and for the sake of this thread, Yale no. 9.

I walked Oakmont during this year's US Open and Shinnecock in 2004 so I'm familiar with those two. I would definitely add Oakmont's 17th hole to the list.