[Tim Gavrich]

It appears as if my father and I are going to spend about five or six days in Scotland this coming June.  I believe we've secured a house in Crail.  I've heard the Crail Golf Links is good.  We're definitely try to get lucky with TOC, but other than that, we're unsure of where else we might play.  Therefore, I am looking for suggestions.  I've read a great deal about many different courses here, but Scottish geography is not (yet) my forté.  What are the main recommendations in terms of GCA quality?

I thought I read somewhere on here that history aside, the New Course at St. Andrews is better GCA-wise.

Is it worth it to investigate some of the newer Scottish gems, namely Kingsbarns and the Castle Course at St. Andrews?  Or would it be better to stick to the older guard?

We don't have any hookups; I'm not sure what Scottish Open rota courses are accessible, but I'm really intrigued by Carnoustie in particular.

Thanks.

--Tim Gavrich

[Bart Bradley]

I didn't play Crail but looked at it...not nearly as visually appealing as some of the others.  

Carnoustie is close by and well worth it and Kingsbarns is a great day with spectacular holes (minus the history).  I found the New Course to be not nearly as interesting or intriguing as the Old Course.  My father in-law enjoyed The Dukes Course as a change of pace...

Hope this helps.

Bart

[jeffwarne]

Tim,
1.enter the lottery at TOC very day.
2,3.Play North Berwick for sure and Muirfield if you can(go to their website) I was able to secure access for a second group by playing with the member at Muirfield that rented me my flat in North Berwick.
(Play Dunbar or Gullane as a backup if no Muirfield)
4-8. New Course,Carnoustie,Kingsbarns,Crail,Elie
That puts you at 8 courses (you will win TOC lottery one day)

Fill in with Castle Course,Lundin Links and you're at 10 and you've only traveled one tough 36 hole day to the North Berwick area. The rest is pretty close to Crail.

[Chris Kane]

It appears that the Castle course doesn't open until June 28, so you can wipe that one out.

If money is no object:

Jeff's advice was right, enter the ballot every day.  You'll almost certainly be successful over 3-4 days.  Other must plays would be Kingsbarns, Elie, the New and Eden courses.  

Also try Carnoustie, Panmure and Monifieth on the other side of Dundee.  

[Bill_McBride]

TOC is mandatory, daily ballot every day.  Walk it on Sunday if possible (it's closed).
Crail Balcomie is terrific, play both Crail courses in a 36 day is fun.
Lundin is very worthwhile.
New Course is fun and interesting but it's not the Old.
Kingsbarns is pricey but Martin Bonnar says it's a must play.  
Try to meet up with GCAers who are in the area - Martin, Chris Kane, who else?
It's great just to hang out there!
North Berwick and other East Lothian courses are a separate routing, through Edinburgh and east along the coast.

I'll be there in June too.  What are your dates?

[Chris Kane]

Bill, I'm long gone - he can meet up with me when he comes to Melbourne!

[Keith Phillips]

Tim, by all means play Crail Balcomie and Craighead - two very different courses but a LOT of fun and the best value I've seen in Scotland - TOC is mandatory but odds may be against you in prime season - I love Carnoustie and Kingsbarns but they are very pricey in US$ - I have not played anything else in immediate vicinity of Crail but Elie and Lundin are high on my list...I'm a member of a prominent course in Scotland and have played many of the bigger name courses but I keep recalling my days at Crail as among my favorites.

One other thing...Scotland is a very small country - North Berwick area excellent and very driveable but the drive to Turnberry/Troon/Prestwick/Western Gailes is also <3 hours and that 4some is as good as any on the planet (not to mention Barassie, Dundonald, Irvine...)

[Bill_McBride]

Bill, I'm long gone - he can meet up with me when he comes to Melbourne!

So I guess you're not hanging at the Dunvegan any more then, right?    Just kidding!

I'll bet you miss St Andrews, it's a special place indeed.

I'd love to get over to see you in Melbourne.  Next big trip is Buenos Aires end of January (with wife Kathleen for 40th anniversary!), then Scotland June 2008.  Maybe 2009........

[Mickey Boland]

Went with a group last year and we weren't all that crazy about Crail Balcomie.  First 6 or 7 holes were good, couple in the middle, but last 4 holes really felt cramped and tacked on and not up to the quality of the rest of the course.  (Eh, just one opinion.)  Did not play Craighead.

We did enjoy Lundin Golf Club and I would second some recommendations on that.

[Rich Goodale]

Tim

I'm not sure exactly when you are coming, but on 16-18 June the Budapest Cup (UK GCA.com gathering) will probably be held at Lundin Links and Elie.  If you and your dad will be in Crail then, you would be very welcome to join us, for a found or two, or the whole event (5 rounds of Ryder Cup format match play).

If those dates don't fit, c'est la vie, but let me know, as I live less than an hour from Crail and maybe we could get together anyway.

As for places to play, obviously the Old Course by ballot is priority #1.  After that, in rough order of quality you have, within 30 minutes:

1.  Kingsbarns
2.  New Course
3.  Elie
4.  Lundin
5.  Eden
6.  Ladybank
7.  Crail (Balcomie)
8.  Crail (Craighead)

In the same area, in rank order of quirk, you have:

1.  Anstruther
2.  Elie
3.  Eden
4.  Crail (Balcomie)
5.  Lundin Ladies

Whatever happens, enjoy!

Rich

[Ben Stephens]

Tim,

I used to play golf in that area a lot while at University of Dundee. I would definitely recommend Downfield - north of Dundee it was one of the local qualifying course for this years Open. Also it was my home course which I nicknamed it 'Wentworth of the North'. Constitently in a good nick in June.

Others not mentioned worth going to -
Scotscraig - North of St Andrews.
St Andrews - Jubilee
Leven Links.
Blairgowrie (Rosemount) - North of Dundee.
Montrose Links - one of the oldest courses in the world
Pitlochry - Over an hours drive up in the hills north of Perth

Carnoustie is one of my favourites but beware it can be one of the most tiring rounds of golf in your life beacuse you will need all the strength you have to hit so many long shots!

Elie is one of the most fun to play - only 2 par 3s and all par 4s - 5 of them are reachable off the tee.

All these courses mentioned I reckon you will definitely enjoy them

Ben

[Mark Pearce]

If you're looking a little wider than Fife (Carnoustie, Downfield, Blairgowrie) then there are dozens of potential venues.  I like Panmure.  Alyth I remeber as a nice spot.  There are all the East Lothian courses (Muirfield, Gullane, Kilspindie, Luffness) and you're not too far from Aberdeen (Royal Aberdeen, Murcar, Cruden Bay).

It would be great if you could join us for some (or all) of BUDA.

[Tim Gavrich]

Thanks for all the responses so far.  It'd be wonderful to participate in the BUDA, but I suspect that we'll likely be gone by the time it starts, unfortunately.  I think my dad was shooting to get there around the 7th or so and leave by the 13th or 14th, but our dates are not completely locked-in.

Cheers.

[Bill_McBride]

Tim

I'm not sure exactly when you are coming, but on 16-18 June the Budapest Cup (UK GCA.com gathering) will probably be held at Lundin Links and Elie.  If you and your dad will be in Crail then, you would be very welcome to join us, for a found or two, or the whole event (5 rounds of Ryder Cup format match play).

If those dates don't fit, c'est la vie, but let me know, as I live less than an hour from Crail and maybe we could get together anyway.

As for places to play, obviously the Old Course by ballot is priority #1.  After that, in rough order of quality you have, within 30 minutes:

1.  Kingsbarns
2.  New Course
3.  Elie
4.  Lundin
5.  Eden
6.  Ladybank
7.  Crail (Balcomie)
8.  Crail (Craighead)

In the same area, in rank order of quirk, you have:

1.  Anstruther
2.  Elie
3.  Eden
4.  Crail (Balcomie)
5.  Lundin Ladies

Whatever happens, enjoy!

Rich

Rich, I haven't played the Jubilee yet.  Is it that far behind the New?  Interested in your opinion.....

[Doug Bolls]

So, I am going to put in a plug for a full day at Muirfield - you can get times easily on their web site.  Play your own ball in either 4somes or 2somes in AM.  Bring a jacket and tie and have lunch in the dining room - best lunch buffet I've had in along time - have a wee nip of Kummel and talk with a few of the members.  You will not forget this experience.
Play 2ball 4somes in the afternoon - alternate shot with you and your dad - Muirfield is set up to play this game rather quickly.  It is a great day!.
Alternative, play Muirfield in AM, have lunch and go to North Berwick in the afternoon.  That's what we did last time there - another great day.
Have fun, and let us know how you liked it.

[Rich Goodale]

Bill

Some people like the Jubilee.  I don't.  The routing feels contrived rather than natural, ther are far too many bland holes, and far too few memorable ones (maybe one or two for me).  The Links Trust is trying to make people play the course if they want to have a chance on the Old.  This tells me something.

Rich

[Gary Slatter]

It appears as if my father and I are going to spend about five or six days in Scotland this coming June.  I believe we've secured a house in Crail.  I've heard the Crail Golf Links is good.  We're definitely try to get lucky with TOC, but other than that, we're unsure of where else we might play.  Therefore, I am looking for suggestions.  I've read a great deal about many different courses here, but Scottish geography is not (yet) my forté.  What are the main recommendations in terms of GCA quality?

I thought I read somewhere on here that history aside, the New Course at St. Andrews is better GCA-wise.

Is it worth it to investigate some of the newer Scottish gems, namely Kingsbarns and the Castle Course at St. Andrews?  Or would it be better to stick to the older guard?

We don't have any hookups; I'm not sure what Scottish Open rota courses are accessible, but I'm really intrigued by Carnoustie in particular.

Thanks.

--Tim Gavrich

Tim, I've only lived here (St Andrew) for 3 months but please give me a call or email and I'd be happy to help with "free advice".  In spite of another thread the food is great and the courses are available so dreams can come true.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill

Some people like the Jubilee.  I don't.  The routing feels contrived rather than natural, ther are far too many bland holes, and far too few memorable ones (maybe one or two for me).  The Links Trust is trying to make people play the course if they want to have a chance on the Old.  This tells me something.

Rich

Our (unsuccessful   ) application did indeed require playing two courses, the second to be either the New or the Jubilee, I think at their discretion.

I enjoyed the New but it ain't the Old.  So the Jubilee is far from being the New.  Hmmm.

[Rich Goodale]

 So the Jubilee is far from being the New.  Hmmm.

You got it, Buckaroo!

[Matt MacIver]

If you want to head in- land by 1-1.5 hours, I really enjoyed Gleneagles Kings.  Didn't play either Queens (hear it's also very good nor the other one that Nicklaus built and will host the '14 Ryder Cup.  

I will echo what others said re: Kingsbarns being a must must.  

[Steve Kline]

If you're not averse to staying somewhere other than St. Andrews I highly recommend Cruden Bay and Royal Aberdeen (it's a little far for 36 holes and driving all in one day). Cruden Bay is one of my favorite courses in Scotland.

[Matt_Sullivan]

Bill

I have only played the Jubilee and the New once each (on our Reverse Old Course trip earlier this year) but I wouldn't be quite as tough as Rich. This may be because the New didn't reach my somewhat high expectations and the Jubilee exceeded my somewhat low ones. But I would say if TOC is a 10, the New is a 7 and the Jubilee a 6.

Matt

PS: Shane says hi

[John Pflum]

Tim,

There was a great article in Golf Week a while back about playing the "unknown" courses in Scotland.  Basically, this guy showed up at the airport with his clubs and no plans whatsoever.  He just played courses that the locals recommended.  

I have a scanned copy of it if you'd like me to email it to you.  Drop me a PM.......

[Bill_McBride]

Bill

I have only played the Jubilee and the New once each (on our Reverse Old Course trip earlier this year) but I wouldn't be quite as tough as Rich. This may be because the New didn't reach my somewhat high expectations and the Jubilee exceeded my somewhat low ones. But I would say if TOC is a 10, the New is a 7 and the Jubilee a 6.

Matt

PS: Shane says hi

Please tell her "hi" back!  It was fun meeting you two in Scotland.  How much longer are you going to be in China?  If you get to Mission Hills for the World Cup, the US will be represented by Boo Weekly and Heath Slocum, high school teammates from near Pensacola.  Maybe you will get a chance to meet them, Boo might be the funniest guy on the tour and can really play!

[Doug Siebert]

I agree with Matt.  Perhaps I need another look at the New, but I didn't rate it as highly as Rich did.  It was better than the Jubilee, but only just.

I don't feel in any hurry to visit the New again when there are so many great courses just within an hour's drive of St. Andrews that I have yet to play, so giving it another look may take a decade or two

I have found the Jubilee to be ideal as a course to play after flying in if you are staying in town, because you can just walk straight over and play it with little wait, and it isn't terribly expensive.  Odds are pretty good you can get on with some locals, especially if like I did you ask to be paired up with some who would be willing to play with a Yank.  Its a great way to get yourself reacquainted with shots that you don't play too often in the US, like the putter from 25 yards off the green and the straight up sand shot over the high lip of a tiny pot bunker.  And you can start tuning up the distance control on the 100-150 yard low half punch that will get such a workout during a visit to Scotland.

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