Cobb's Creek Collaborators - Restoration Dreams

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

I'm in for 10am on 12/1.

[Powell Arms]

I'll be there for the discussion, at a minimum.

[Doug Braunsdorf]

Bump

[Joe Bausch]

DougB experienced Roache's in all its glory on Black Friday.  Those that have never been to this establishment are missing something special.  I look forward to Saturday's meeting at Cobb's, where perhaps it will be warm enough to play a couple of holes, then kick around any and all golf/sports/societal issues in The Oak Room at R&OB.

[wsmorrison]

So what's the story?  What time and where are we meeting?  the high on Saturday looks like 39* with winds from the NW up to 13mph.  Perfect for a walk around, but not sure if I have time to play.  If we meet up early enough, I'm up to play a bit of golf, but I won't be able to play 18 holes.

[Joe Bausch]

So what's the story?  What time and where are we meeting?  the high on Saturday looks like 39* with winds from the NW up to 13mph.  Perfect for a walk around, but not sure if I have time to play.  If we meet up early enough, I'm up to play a bit of golf, but I won't be able to play 18 holes.

Let's meet at 10 AM Saturday and Mark will give us a walk-around.  Perhaps we can play a few holes if deemed warm enough then move our discussions indoors at the French restaurant in Haverford known as Ro'shay and Obrieown.  

I'll tell the propietor to be expecting a couple of foursomes for the Oak Room between noon and 1 PM.  Roache's is located at 560 Lancaster Avenue, across the street from the Wendy's being rebuilt and close to the Wilkie Lexus dealership.  Park along Old Buck Lane (the road off Lancaster leading to the Lexus d'ship), but certainly do not park in the Main Line Arts Center lot as they tow.  Here is a map of the area:  

http://tinyurl.com/cnyy7

I'd like to extend this invitation to R&O'b on Saturday to all the Philly area GCAers.  You're not required to partake in the Cobb's affair, but I hope everyone will.  But I'd like to meet more of you in person, as some of you (read:  Mayday) can't be nearly as clueless as you seem online.  

Tom Paul, I hope you can make it.  Mark Susko:  perhaps you can have your assistant work the afternoon and join us as well!

[Mike_Cirba]

It'll be a bit nippy, but I'm up for playing if anyone else is..

At minimum, I think we as a group should walk most of the course to review the old routing (and have Mark show us the old abandoned tees) as a precursor to our discussions.

[wsmorrison]

I might be a little bit late.  There's a proshop sale at my club and I want to get there early.  I'll catch up with everyone around 10:30 or so.  

[Joe Bausch]

Accuweather is predicting 43° w/ a Realfeel temp of 41, obviously suggesting not much wind.  I play in that sort of weather so I'll tee it up w/ you Mike!

[Powell Arms]

I am interested in what a restoration might look like, and I am also interested in discussing how a restoration of any scope gets done.

Some questions to consider:

1.   Under the new management contract, is capital improvement addressed?

2.   Are green fees controlled, and may they be adjusted if capital improvements are made?

3.   Is it permissible to close the course for a period of time?  

4.   If the course is closed, what is the revenue shortfall for the city and Fairmount park commission?

5.   If the course is closed, does the management company still get paid, or does their lost income an additional cost of the project?

6.   What approvals are required to get funds for the architectural work required to prepare a presentation to the decision makers?

7.   Who are the decision makers, recognizing that they likely won’t be the financiers?


See you tomorrow,

Powell

[Doug Braunsdorf]

I might be late as well, I have a dinner party the night before

[Powell Arms]

I might be late as well, I have a dinner party the night before

have one on me

[Joe Bausch]

Powell, will you be teeing it up?  I'm trying to figure out a game to play.  Maybe Mike and I (the public schoolers) can take on you and Mayday (the private schoolers).    

[Powell Arms]

Joe, I don't think I'll be playing.  I havent completely worked out my hall pass

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I just might take a walk. I'm a fair weather golfer.

[Kyle Harris]

I'm jealous... have fun everybody, Cobb's is a special place.

[Mike_Cirba]

Powell,

Those are some great questions and I have others as well.

It's unlikely that we'll be able to answer many of them yet, but we should discuss them all to understand their ramifications.

What I'd like to accomplish is to put together a high-level list of options for consideration that we can present to interested/involved parties.   I think we can be the catalyst only.

[Jason Mandel]

I may try and make it as well, I'm 50/50 at this point but should know more tommorow.

I'm completely embarrased to say I've never played Cobbs.

Jason

[Mike_Cirba]

I may try and make it as well, I'm 50/50 at this point but should know more tommorow.

I'm completely embarrased to say I've never played Cobbs.

Jason

Jason,

I hope you can attend as I know your insight would be valuable.

Although, if you've never played Cobb's, we may have to first send you out to the Karakung course as proper penance.    

[Bill Hagel]

Gentlemen

I just got my password for the discussion group tonight; and I am so lucky that the first post I read is this magnificent discussion on Cobbs Creek.

I've been playing at Cobbs for the past 30 years and am now a member at it's neighbor McCall Field (what a little gem that is but I'll save that for another post).

I only have two things to add from stuff I heard through the years when hooking up with some long timers after starting out solo.

I did hear the current 16 was a blind tee shot Par 4 originating from somewhere near the current 6th tee (makes sense).

I also heard that the re-routing (because of the anti-aicraft gunnery) was done by none other than George Fazio, who used to play at Cobbs a lot.  

Mark - did you ever hear that?

Another question.  There is a course in Berks County PA called Galen Hall designed by Alex Findley (who I believe also did another Philly Muni - Walnut Lane) and reworked by AW Tillinghast around 1917.  They claim to have the very first island green.  But could the island green at Cobbs have pre-dated that of Galen Hall? Making Wilsons 12th hole the first ever island green?

I know I'm the new guy on the Board but I wonder if it's okay to tag along Saturday. I'm fascinated.  I've known Mark Susko since he started working at Cobbs (although I haven't frequented it as much over the last two years since joining McCall).

Thanks and Thanks for the great posts.  

[Kyle Harris]

Bill,

I'm not sure of the time table, but Tillinghast's Old York Road CC in Abington, PA also had a moat hole played as a par 4. It still exists today as a par 3 and the course has been reduced to 9 holes and is called Abington Golf and Fitness Club since Old York Road moved to their present site on Tennis Ave. According to Shackelford's Golden Age of Golf Design, Cobb's opened in 1917 as well. Seems like those crazy Philadelphians were surrounding their greens with water all the  time. Nutty bunch those Philly guys...

Alex Findlay did a lot of PA/Philly Golf, including Llanerch CC and the newly municipal Reading CC.

[Joe Bausch]

Welcome Bill!  It would be great to have you there on Saturday.  See you at 10 AM, clubs in hand if wish to play with some of us after Mark's tour of the original routing and some of the old tees.

[wsmorrison]

Welcome to the party, Bill!  See you tomorrow.  

Joe,
Will you be meeting at the clubhouse?  

[Mike_Cirba]

Bill,

We'd love to have you join us.  And Kyle's history of island greens is my understanding, as well.  

Wayne,

Yes, I think the clubhouse would be the place as long as Mark is cool with all us low-lifers hanging around giving character to the place.  

[Joe Bausch]

Yes, we'll meet at the clubhouse.

And in honor of Kyle, we'll all wear freshly pressed khaki pants, the latest fashion TW Nike tight fit shirts, and we'll take carts.