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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« on: November 09, 2007, 02:05:06 PM »
I think it should be a pre-req for everyone to read this link before they are allowed to post on GCA. com.

Especially when it comes to determing greatness or the lack thereof of Ted Robinson courses.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/
« Last Edit: November 09, 2007, 02:17:51 PM by Kalen Braley »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2007, 02:17:49 PM »
What's reason got to do with it? This is golf!
 ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2007, 02:27:19 PM »
And if you make it 10 pages into one of Shivas' trainng threads you will, in fact, feel like Nicholson looks in your little picture there...

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2007, 02:30:10 PM »
Kalen,

If you're referring to Dave, his argument abilities are very good, certainly his internal reasoning.  Perhaps his most-common failing is straw man arguments, but he is no more guilty of that than others, and besides he's a lawyer, which means he does it purposely.  They can't help that sort of behavior.

He also throws out circular reasoning on occasion, not necessarily out of a weakness on his part.  It's purposeful smokescreening.

But if he wasn't so good at internal argument, his threads wouldn't go on and on and on.

The weaknesses of his arguments tend to come from his premises, which tend to be empirically unprovable.  He is very good at reframing argument to shift the burden of proof off him and onto his foe.  Or he just ignores anything he can't prove / disprove.  He waits those out, and usually those get buried pretty quickly in the torrent of postings.

Bottom line: I'm with Sully on this one...

Mark

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2007, 03:31:23 PM »
Mark,

I posted the thread in response to the many heated threads going on in the last couple of days.  Plus I was talking to my buddy online about aethism vs. agnoisticsm and he kept making logical fallcies so I had to break it down for him.   ;D

As it pertains to Daves thread and its popularity, I'm not so sure it remains popular due to his abilities to his aruge.  I think its more based on taking a preposterous position that most people would have a strong reaction to, thus keeping people around.  Its like that post I made on about page 5.  He gets fun out of taking an indefensible position to see if he can argue it and make people think otherwise.  Thats the real method to his madness.   ;)

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2007, 01:16:46 AM »
 
I don't want to argue and I don't want more rules.


"There ain't no rules around here! We're trying to accomplish something."  Tom Edison
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Kyle Harris

Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2007, 06:56:19 AM »
Logic is but one tool of reason.

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2007, 11:47:31 AM »
Logic is but one tool of reason.

what are some others?

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2007, 12:06:34 AM »
David,

My Goodness Gracious... I agree with you on this.

Bob

Doug Ralston

Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2007, 08:13:24 AM »
Yes;

Certainly 'Appeal to Popularity' stands out as the most used device on this site, with respect to course architecture.

Thanks Kalen. Site saved to favorites.

Doug

Kyle Harris

Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2007, 10:13:11 AM »
Logic is but one tool of reason.

what are some others?

Jeez Alex, a man of your background should know that!

Scientific Method
Deduction
Induction
Observation

I think we can tell who was on debate or Mock Trial in HS on this board and who wasn't...

Red Herrings abound in our discussions, mostly... followed by the False Dilemma.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2007, 10:14:47 AM by Kyle Harris »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2007, 10:45:42 AM »
Logic is but one tool of reason.

what are some others?

Jeez Alex, a man of your background should know that!

Scientific Method
Deduction
Induction
Observation

I think we can tell who was on debate or Mock Trial in HS on this board and who wasn't...

Red Herrings abound in our discussions, mostly... followed by the False Dilemma.

Don't forget the appeal to authority, Attacking the messenger, and StrawMen as well..  ;)

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2007, 07:37:10 PM »
Logic is but one tool of reason.

what are some others?

Jeez Alex, a man of your background should know that!

Scientific Method
Deduction
Induction
Observation

I think we can tell who was on debate or Mock Trial in HS on this board and who wasn't...



it depends how you define reason.  to me reason is pretty synonymous with logic.  and induction and deduction are parts of logic.

i think the scientific method and logic are ways of increasing 'knowledge'.

i was wondering if you were including 'emotion' or 'it feels right' as part of 'reason'.  that makes for an interesting debate.  sociopaths for example are very capable of logic, but incapable of the emotions which are perhaps necessary for morality.

Kyle Harris

Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2007, 08:02:40 PM »
Good points there, and yes I was splitting hairs a bit. But I think we both get each others drifts, no?

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2007, 01:45:49 PM »
Logic is but one tool of reason.

what are some others?

Fuzzy logic
Statistics
Cybernetics
Statistics with conditional probabilities
 :o ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pre-requisite to posting on GCA
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2007, 06:42:27 PM »
Logic is but one tool of reason.

what are some others?

Jeez Alex, a man of your background should know that!

Scientific Method
Deduction
Induction
Observation

I think we can tell who was on debate or Mock Trial in HS on this board and who wasn't...



it depends how you define reason.  to me reason is pretty synonymous with logic.  and induction and deduction are parts of logic.

i think the scientific method and logic are ways of increasing 'knowledge'.

i was wondering if you were including 'emotion' or 'it feels right' as part of 'reason'.  that makes for an interesting debate.  sociopaths for example are very capable of logic, but incapable of the emotions which are perhaps necessary for morality.



astavrides.....are you by chance a fan of ee cummings too?
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca