America vs. Scotland Top 5

[Gary Daughters]

I've been back and forth on this, but now I think that in my wildest dreams I would love to play:

The Old Course
Machrihanish
Royal Dornoch
N. Berwick
Prestwick

Over:

Augusta Natl.
NGLA
Sand Hills
Cypress Point
Pine Valley

[Tom Huckaby]

Is this a dream to play once, or to play often?

And if it is a dream, well....

The Scotland courses require nothing but money - so if that's the sticking point, then keep dreaming.  If the money can be arranged, why dream and not play?

The others require things other than money, and thus may be more of a dream.

And not to be an arrogant America's Guest, but I've played 7 out of the 10.  I'm still dreaming about Augusta and Pine Valley, and may never make that dream come true at either.  I WILL play Machrihanish, maybe in 2008.

So put me down for the US list.  

[Roger Tufts]

As with Tom, I'd go for the American list, on the sheer point that they are more of a dream, seeing as they are all private and, as Tom said, require more than money to get on.

For the record, I haven't played any of the 10 (Hoping for National next summer!!!)

But I would, in my dreams that is, play four out of five of those US courses over all but TOC in Scotland, regardless of course caliber. Its just the way my mind works.

[Jim Franklin]

5 of my personal top 6 are represented in this list. CPC, NGLA, PV, TOC, and Sand Hills (Shinnecock Hills got left out of your top 5 US somehow ). I would have to go with the US squad as well. Machrihanish needs to be seen though. I might put Ailsa ahead of N Berwick as well.

[Gary Daughters]

Jim,

This is not meant as a ranking, strictly a personal thing.

I am not saying the Scottish courses are "better" courses.  It's their strange allure that puts them on top for me.

[Tom Huckaby]

Gary:  I figured that.  But my reply stands.  At least for me, if I am dreaming, it's about courses I can't get on.  Oh I dream about those Scotland courses too, believe me.... but those are dreams that have come true - and can for anyone.  The others are dreams that only a very very few fortunate can make happen.

So to me your US list is solid.... but the Scotland list doesn't seem dream-worthy, in this very weird way.

Weird point, I guess... but that's what struck me about all of this.

TH

[Gary Daughters]

TH,

I totally get your point.  Maybe it's time to stop dreaming

[Tom Huckaby]

TH,

I totally get your point.  Maybe it's time to stop dreaming

... and start playing!

That's my main point, re Scotland anyway.

But I also understand it's not cheap...

TH

[Gary Daughters]

But here's the thing.  

Of the five Scottish courses I listed, I have played RD.

At least I think I have.  Because not only was it a dream come true, that course in reality is truly dreamlike.  I believe that's the undefinable (?) quality I'm talking about that the Scottish courses have over the Americans.

It's not something you can bottle or accomplish with an earthmover.  Tom Doak could maybe tell you what it is, but I sure as hell can't.

[Tom Huckaby]

AHA!

Well now we are on to something.  Sorry to be so dense - and so freakin literal and practical - before.

Yes, those great links do have a dreamlike quality that I would agree puts them over the US dream courses, for me as well.  There's just something about links golf that is so different, so magical, so RIGHT... and GREAT links courses bring this out so perfectly... that well, yeah I too think we need a Tom Doak, or maybe Rich Goodale, to properly put this into words.  

But I do get you, truly I do.

So in this manner, put me down for the Scottish five.

Fickle I am, consistent I am not.

 

[Gary Daughters]

TH

Keep the change

[Jack_Marr]

I think I'd have to go with Scotland. Although I'm just guessing from afar.

[Jim Franklin]

I am still going with the US. The food stinks in Scotland too and I need to eat in my dreams as well .

[Gary Daughters]

Jim,

I've had plenty of unexpectedly good meals in Scotland and remain shocked that Sticky Toffee Pudding has not yet caught on here.

[JMorgan]

Gary, even if I was a member of one of the American 5, I would pick the Scotland 5.  

[Jim Franklin]

Gary -

The best meal in Scotland was at the Dunvegan and it was where I would choose to eat every time. But other than that, I enjoyed the Pizza Hut by Prestwick the most.

[Mark Pearce]

Gary -

The best meal in Scotland was at the Dunvegan and it was where I would choose to eat every time. But other than that, I enjoyed the Pizza Hut by Prestwick the most.

The fact that you were eating at Pizza Hut suggests this may not have been a fair comparison.  Where are you comparing in the States?  Chick Fil A (or whatever it's called)?

Don't get me wrong, one of the strong points of any visit to the States is the ability to eat reasonably at a good price and I think it probably does beat Scotland but in both you need to know where you are going or do some research first.  Sounds like you didn't give Scotland a fair chance.

[Ally Mcintosh]

it is true that you tend to have to hunt out good food in scotland... ireland is a different matter...

gary, by your definition of 'dream', then i guess it is scotland for me also...

having never played any of the american courses (and if i take history and availability out of the equation), it strikes me that shinnecock hills would be the one i would love to play over and over...

p.s. i realise you didn't include it ...

[Jim Franklin]

Gary -

The best meal in Scotland was at the Dunvegan and it was where I would choose to eat every time. But other than that, I enjoyed the Pizza Hut by Prestwick the most.

The fact that you were eating at Pizza Hut suggests this may not have been a fair comparison.  Where are you comparing in the States?  Chick Fil A (or whatever it's called)?

Don't get me wrong, one of the strong points of any visit to the States is the ability to eat reasonably at a good price and I think it probably does beat Scotland but in both you need to know where you are going or do some research first.  Sounds like you didn't give Scotland a fair chance.

They had a lunch for us at Prestwick and I could not tell what they were serving. It looked and smelled like week old mayo. As for eating in the states, I prefer a good steak, but I would rather not have the steak "fancied up" so to speak. I hate the new restaurants that have to make the portions tiny and add sauces and other crap that I just don't want.

My taste buds may not be as refined as yours, but I needed to eat and the Pizza Hut was perfect at the time.

[tlavin]

Gary -

The best meal in Scotland was at the Dunvegan and it was where I would choose to eat every time. But other than that, I enjoyed the Pizza Hut by Prestwick the most.

The fact that you were eating at Pizza Hut suggests this may not have been a fair comparison.  Where are you comparing in the States?  Chick Fil A (or whatever it's called)?

Don't get me wrong, one of the strong points of any visit to the States is the ability to eat reasonably at a good price and I think it probably does beat Scotland but in both you need to know where you are going or do some research first.  Sounds like you didn't give Scotland a fair chance.

They had a lunch for us at Prestwick and I could not tell what they were serving. It looked and smelled like week old mayo. As for eating in the states, I prefer a good steak, but I would rather not have the steak "fancied up" so to speak. I hate the new restaurants that have to make the portions tiny and add sauces and other crap that I just don't want.

My taste buds may not be as refined as yours, but I needed to eat and the Pizza Hut was perfect at the time.

You gotta, gotta, gotta start watching Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares on Fox in America or Kitchen Nightmares on the BBC.  It is, hands-down, the best reality show, ever.  You might never want to go out to eat again, but that's a different thread...

[Andrew Mitchell]

There are plenty of excellent restaurants in Scotland, it just needs a bit of research in advance (or a recommendation).

Ramsey's kitchen nightmares shouldn't be taken as indicative of the standard of UK restaurants...

Back on topic I'd take the US top 5 simply because I view that list as unattainable whereas I am confident that I will complete the Scottish top 5 at some stage (Prestwick & Machrahanish still to play).

But would I be able to stand the food in the US given that its the home of MacDonalds?

[Andrew Mitchell]

Sorry - double post

[tlavin]

There are plenty of excellent restaurants in Scotland, it just needs a bit of research in advance (or a recommendation).

Ramsey's kitchen nightmares shouldn't be taken as indicative of the standard of UK restaurants...

Back on topic I'd take the US top 5 simply because I view that list as unattainable whereas I am confident that I will complete the Scottish top 5 at some stage (Prestwick & Machrahanish still to play).

But would I be able to stand the food in the US given that its the home of MacDonalds?

Actually, the Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares series that is running here in the States is all about U.S. restaurants.  Trust me, there are plenty of shitholes that call themselves restaurants here.  Whether it's a "classic English pub" outside of Liverpool or a "classic Indian" restaurant in Manhattan, there are horror stories and stories of redemption to be told and they're telling them on those two series.

[Jim Franklin]

There are plenty of excellent restaurants in Scotland, it just needs a bit of research in advance (or a recommendation).

Please fill me in on some good places to eat in Scotland. There was a good pub I recall on the way from Troon to Glasgow, but I can't remember the name. I have St Andrews covered with the Dunvegan, but suggestions near Turnberry or Dornoch would be helpful.

[Daryl David]

Here are a few.

Duck's in Aberlady
The Doll's House in St. Andrews
The Sea Food Restaurant in St. Andrews
Bella Italia in North Berwick
Road Hole Bar in the Old Course Hotel for appetizers