tiger proofing

[james]

What are the common opinions on renavations of courses making them longer hoping to make it more difficult.  It makes it more difficult for some and it knocks half the field out of contention.

what are your thoughts???

[Chris Kane]

"Tiger-proofing" courses by lengthening them actually plays into his hands.  Bethpage is the perfect example.  The distance of those par-4's ensured that only those who hit extremely long were really in contention to win the tournament.

The longer the golf course, the easier it is for him relative to other players.

There needs to be some distinction made between "low score-proofing" and "Tiger-proofing".  Making a course really long prevents low-scoring, but it doesn't stop Tiger dominating!

How would you Tiger-proof a course?  Make it short!  Ensure that the holes emphasise something other than distance alone.  Bring the "shotmakers" like Pavin back into the field.  Tiger is the best player out there, so he's going to win his fair share anyway, but at least some others might have a chance.

[Frank U. Kaiser]

We need to Tiger-proof golf courses in order to prevent Woods from winning everything.  Riviera is a good example.  About 300 yards have been added to the course.  A couple of par fours are 490 yards long.  The goal is to force Woods to hit mid-irons.

[Chris Kane]

Fine to force Woods to hit mid-irons, but that means that almost everyone else hits long-irons, which further separates him from the field.

Why do we need to stop Tiger winning everything?

[WilliamWang]

with regard to "tiger proofing", if you were to impose limits on club length wouldn't that benefit tiger even more?  after all he still uses a 43.5" steel shaft on his driver.  the extra length of a 45" graphite shaft with a titanium head benefits the shorter pga players much more than tiger who doesn't use it.

[BV]

I am certain that Tommy Paul will blow me out of the water    , but Tiger proofing is first and foremost not something that really can be done.  The gap between El Tigre and the rest is not insurmountable but probably the largest chasm in the history of professional golf.  Secondly, the only things that have made a difference other than how much his own mental preparation and state happens to affect any particular outcome is weather and strategic conditions which lessen the effect of length and control.

Otherwise, just leave the courses alone.  Who really care if one player shoots 30 under and the next player is 18 under on a ho-hum non-major course? See last week's Buick  _______ (WHICHEVERITWASTHISTIME".)   Also, if he shoots 20 under and #2 is 8 under when El Tigre is "on" in a major, so what?  

I haven't changed my mind about this one, that's for sure.  Courses shouldn't be changed to accommodate an aberration.

Not that equipment Driver and balls are the real problem) doesn't need attention, but for now, his mental abilities prevent true "Tiger Proofing".

[A_Clay_Man]

Does anyone care to take a guess at how far Eldrick can hit it w/ a persimmon club with an old ball?

 I don't believe the equiptment would change his marginal advantage for length, do you?

So the logic in changing the length of the courses is, in my best Spock voice complete w/raised eyebrow, illogical.

 What's more likely to level the playing field is to change the venue. Startegic design with a kick. You hit too far you screwed. I know of no other feature that induces more whinning from some of the best golfers, or long hitters.

Oh yeah. did I mention that since the pro game is so far removed from what you or I could mustar, the solution is for the PGA Tour to stop paying thier accountants and start building facilities that can tame the beast that is in the show.

Or only play at places that run out of fairway at the 285 mark.

[Newporter]

Did anyone else watching the Open note what the fairway bunkering at Muirfield did?  It made pounding drives up to wedge range unrealistic.

Sure, Tiger still has a huge advantage (physical and mental superiority should have an advantage), but he had to hit two four irons into 18.  Some of the field hit 3 wood or driver off the tee but virtually everyone who played to avoid bunkers had a 200+yd shot into the green.  

If the goal is to see pros play longer irons into greens, isn't this far better than cranking out 7600yd tracks with 500 yd par fours and 650 yd par fives?

[Jamie_Duffner]

This Tiger proofing thing is over-done.  The guy is simply head and shoulders above everyone else.  So make it short, make it long, if he's on his game it won't matter.  He's vulnerable when the driver or 3 wood are a bit balky or the iron play is not sharp (well duh ) He decimated the field at St. Andrews and Pebble, are they long courses?  I think he has a bigger advantage on strategic courses, where a little thinking is required.  Despite his awesome physical gifts, he is the best "thinker" out there and that's where he really gets his edge.

Also, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, the top 20 at Bethpage had three big hitters, the rest were medium if not short hitters.  

[Kevin_Reilly]

Does anyone care to take a guess at how far Eldrick can hit it w/ a persimmon club with an old ball?

I followed Tiger around Lake Merced in 1992 for a US Open qualifier.  He was of course using a persimmon driver and Daiwa blade irons.  He was longer than anyone else out there.  He hit his second shot on 18 over the green with a 3 wood.  Of course today he would hit the same shot with a 3 iron or less.

[Dave_Miller]

Forget length.

Defend Par at the Green and in the words of Rick Reilly make Jim Furyk Tiger's new swing coach.

Cheers,
Dave

[WilliamWang]

mark huxford - i don't think it's an either other proposition, human challenge versus amalgam.  it is both and always has been.  gutta percha to sarazen's sand wedge to steel shafts to steel heads to graphite to titanium to god knows what next.

did the gutta percha change golf immeasureably for the worse when it was introduced?  i'm not knowledgeable enough to know, but my guess is that there were probably some who thought it would be the ruin of the game.  same with steel shafts.

dave- the last time jim furyk finished in the top ten in tour putting average was 1998.  tiger's a pretty good putter too

[mike cocking]

It might be interesting to note that tiger was hitting the ball further in his last years at college than he is now.

Whilst much of this was due to bad technique (inside the line, across the top and steep), he was renowned to have hit his standard callaway, taylor made and king cobra drivers with steel shafts (no titanium), further than he does now.

Although, I'm not sure it was straighter? Or more consistent?

[Paul Richards]

Anyone that tells you technology isn't changing the game ( ) need only look at last week's International at Castle Pines.  Although the ball does travel farther in the thin mountain air, Hank Kuehne hit driver 9-iron and two-putted for birdie on the 644-yard par 5 first hole!!

After a 440-yard drive, his 9-iron went another 200 yards.

Unbelievable!!

[ian]

Didn't the bunkering and fairways of Muirfield hold most of the answers. The course tightens up, the more aggressive a line you play. The bunkering forces the player to make more judgements on placement. Accuracy is returned to an equal footing with length.

He would still win at Muirfield 40% of the time because he's still the best player we will see in our lifetime.

[Paul Richards]

Ian:

you said:
>He would still win at Muirfield 40% of the time

Except under adverse weather conditions, I guess.

[Paul Richards]

james:

How do you "tiger proof" any course that a guy can reach the green on a 644-yard hole with a driver and a nine-iron?

[mike_beene]

Tiger ,I am told by a friend,hit some of Mr. Hogans clubs at Shady Oaks in May when he was working with Stites on Nike clubs.My understanding is that the old clubs and balls didn't affect him much at all. Hearsay,but from a trusted source.

[ian]

Paul,

I would bet on him with bad weather, I think like long golf courses, it gives him an advantage on the field.

[angie]

here's a thought ... related to some of the "tiger proofing" observations, as well as to the "equipment" points -- and it also relates to the question of whether there should be a separate set of rules for pros and tournament play versus what the recreational golfer is obligated to ... how about not allowing caddies to assist the pros in lining up their putts?  that's what i'd call an interesting experiment. tiger would still probably putt better than most/all for the time being.  i mean to say for godsake think how much better i would score if squeaky or fluff or anyone else would cruise up behind me and help me get my line perfect? wow! but on the actual subject of g c architecture: i played my home course saturday and sunday -- on sunday, irons only. no driver, no fairway metals -- and no gap wedges, just my pw and sw.  what emerged at me from the course was all new and different.  what an eye-opener around the greens it proved to be: to be pitching from just that much further out that the carries were no longer easy, no longer routine.  to have some of the fairway bunkers that actually cut into the fairway with significance actually be in play.  i played the front nine from the (we have 4 sets of tees so what do you call not the women's tees, but also not the men's tees?  the senior tees? anyway, at my course they are the green tees) so i played the front 9 from the green tees and the back nine from the mens' (GOLD!) tees (you men, you get everything, gold tees, long drives, 9 irons that fly further than 110 -- jeez, how can you possibly complain about anything?) and this is what happened: i scored exactly about the same.  "exactly about" means that some holes were worse than expected (bogied every par 5) but some were the same and several were actually better.  it made me sit up and take notice of the features of a course which, because i'm on it for at least 18 per week, had begun to put me to sleep.  it's not a course worth describing either negatively or positively, but it's sure a more interesting track now than before -- next week i'm just going to take just my even irons out there -- and the week after that maybe just my 7 iron and putter, who the heck knows?  anyone else playing a dull old course regularly, i highly recommend this as a way of getting to know more about it's "bones" than you might.  for the rest of you who play places like hoylake and merion, what the heck, you're in heaven anyway, reading this post was really pointless, eh?