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corey miller

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Restoring a masterpiece.
« on: October 30, 2007, 02:39:18 PM »

Not golf but some of the same issues we see often in the golf world.  I say restore Jefferson.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-10-30-0133.html

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2007, 02:49:33 PM »
Does "a minimum of $40 million" sound like quite a bit of money to anyone else?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Steve Burrows

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2007, 03:21:56 PM »
Corey,

You're right on about the parallel between restoration/renovation/wholesales changes to a golf course and the possible restoration at UVA.  The inherent changes to a structure or site throughout history have many affects, and it's no more apparent than when a group decides to interpret that history in order to make sense of it.  

Personally, I just don't want to hear an architect say the words, "This is what Jefferson would WANT to do if he were alive today."  I have heard too many golf course designers utter these words during a alleged "restoration," irrespective of whatever historical plans or photos they have in front of them.

Also, that place is worth the money!
...to admit my mistakes most frankly, or to say simply what I believe to be necessary for the defense of what I have written, without introducing the explanation of any new matter so as to avoid engaging myself in endless discussion from one topic to another.     
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David Stamm

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Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2007, 08:31:09 PM »

Also, that place is worth the money!


I concur. It is a legacy of one of our great presidents.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Mike Sweeney

Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2007, 09:39:42 PM »

Not golf but some of the same issues we see often in the golf world.  I say restore Jefferson.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-10-30-0133.html
----------------
"Other changes would be impossible to make. The Rotunda is about 16 inches smaller in its interior diameter now than when Jefferson built it because White added a course of 8-inch bricks to strengthen the walls after the big fire."
-------------------------------------
Sounds like it is impossible to take it to 100% Jefferson, but I agree in spirit as you are talking about a true Renaissance man in Thomas Jefferson.

I am also guessing that the $40 million is for the entire rotunda and lawn complex?


Tommy Williamsen

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Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2007, 12:01:18 AM »
Unless we have some intimate acquaintance with UVA, I don't think we can fully appreciate how revered Mr Jefferson is.  I do not doubt that they would spend whatever it takes to "restore" any of his buildings.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Jamey Bryan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2007, 12:11:30 AM »
I think this is remarkably on topic, as it is forcing me to rethink some of my strong opinions on faithful restoration vs "sympathetic" renovation.  I'm not sure where I'm going to end up here, so my apologies to all in advance for my rambling.

In the interests of full disclosure:

1)  I'm a University alumnus, 1976 School of Commerce.

2)  I lived on The Lawn; Mike Sweeney's picture was taken more or less in front of my old room.  In my opinion, there are few places on earth (even though inhabited by 20-21 year old beer swilling sex crazed almost adults ;D) more ideally designed as an "academical village".

3)  I stand in awe of Mr. Jefferson.  His human foibles simply make him more interesting.....  Walking through Monticello and seeing his original inventions (calendar clock, indoor plumbing, etc), knowing his success as a diplomat and as a domestic statesman, reading his voluminous correspondence, then realizing he designed the various buildings of the Lawn to serve as objects of study for students of classical architecture (but using then modern materials and construction techniques); how can anyone not be in awe.

4)  The last "renovation" of the Rotunda was completed my last year at the University (1976).  Interest in renovating the Rotunda was initiated by students who held, for a number of years, a formal "Restoration Ball" the proceeds of which went to a fund to "jump start" funding of the project.  BTW, the $40MM will be for the Rotunda only-- if memory serves, the '76 renovation cost over $5MM, and that was 30 years ago!.  The '76 renovation focused on converting the Stanford White "silo" interior (which was beautiful visually but completely useless functionally) back to a fairly faithful approximation of Jefferson's interior plan.

To get this rambling narrative back on topic, Mr. Jefferson's "Academical Village" evolved substantially over time. as do most golf courses.  Originally, it consisted of the Rotunda, which housed the library and seminar rooms; the Lawn, which consisted of student dorm rooms and Professor's residences (with rooms in which they were expected to conduct classes); and the Range, with more dorm rooms and eating places.  The "Academical Village" was open on one end (SW, I think), philosophically looking out to the "real world".

The first major change was an addition, called the "Annex" to the Rotunda to house additional classroom space.  This addition was incredibly ugly and out of character with the Jeffersonian design, but was much needed due to the growing student body.  The second major change was to enclose the SW end of the "Village" with a new classroom building, compromising the philosophy of "looking out" to the "real world", but adding needed classroom facilities.  Then the Rotunda fire comes, and Stanford White eliminates the extraordinarily ugly annex, restores the beauty of the Rotunda (like many GCAs, adding a few of his own touches), but eliminates any functionality in the building.  Finally, the '76 renovation restores some of the functionality and the "original" plan, but retains some of the (?best) White changes.

I think the point of all my previous rambling is that Mr. Jefferson designed the Rotunda, and all the surrounding "Academical Village" to be a functioning community.  Each piece had it's part in the whole, and none was ornamental.  Mr. Jefferson would be offended by a purely ornamental device.....  the stairways in Monticello are about two feet wide as he thought they were wasteful in terms of space!!

I think where I end up in principle (both for the Rotunda and with restoration of classic courses) is that:

1)  Where reasonable and practical, the original design should be the default.

2)  Where a change has been made, evaluate it in terms of today's play.  If it seems a good alteration, look at it again two or three times.  If it's still a good change (and consistent with the original archie's philosophy), keep it.

3)  Where a big change has been made that changes the original intent (or strategy), look many times to see the best outcome.  Previously, I would have simply said go back to the original.....  now I'm not so sure.

Jamey

Jamey Bryan

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2007, 12:13:39 AM »
he-he.....

Tommy, does that post qualify?

Jamey

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2007, 12:35:40 AM »
Jamey, after reading that excellent synopsis of the issue, I think you ought to be on the committee to decide.  

Personally, I can't see how we in our times can turn our back on such a significant historical location and achievment.  It is both a symbol and part of the fabric of our history.  It has to be restored to as faithful a version as possible.  But, I do agree that certain unavoidable issues that cause slight deviations have to be part of compromise.  

One issue I can think of is ADA.  I would think 2ft wide stairways is an issue for semi handicapped people, let alone the need for lifts and access to wheel chair bound folk.  

If we are talking about restoration of a landmark historical building, can the strict requirements of ADA be overruled in favor of remaining faithful to the historical integrity of the design?  I have no idea...
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tommy Williamsen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2007, 12:49:16 AM »
he-he.....

Tommy, does that post qualify?

Jamey

Jamey, Brilliant.  Thanks. Mr Jefferson foibles and all was a true 18th century renaissance man.  I remember I did a paper in High School comparing Da Vinci and Jefferson.  I still remember it.  You are right you can't walk through campus or Monticello wiwthout being awed by his creative genius,
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2007, 04:45:41 AM »

Not golf but some of the same issues we see often in the golf world.  I say restore Jefferson.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/cva/ric/news.apx.-content-articles-RTD-2007-10-30-0133.html
----------------
"Other changes would be impossible to make. The Rotunda is about 16 inches smaller in its interior diameter now than when Jefferson built it because White added a course of 8-inch bricks to strengthen the walls after the big fire."
-------------------------------------
Sounds like it is impossible to take it to 100% Jefferson, but I agree in spirit as you are talking about a true Renaissance man in Thomas Jefferson.

I am also guessing that the $40 million is for the entire rotunda and lawn complex?



Maybe 15 years ago I made a long promised pilgrimage down to UVA and Monticello.  I can still remember the awe I had of these buildings - especially Monticello.  

Jamey

Thanks for the bit of history.  I recall being a bit miffed by the dopey wings of the Rotunda.  Now I know why they are there - still, there has to be a better solution then to ruin a spherical building with rectangular wings.  I am sure Jefferson would shake his head at this addition.  It completely goes against the original inspiration of the Pantheon.

$40 million seems a load of cash, but if the money weren't spent on the Rotunda it would just get wasted somewhere else.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill Gayne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Restoring a masterpiece.
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2007, 06:53:38 PM »
Link to Jefferson's architectural drawings.

http://www.lib.virginia.edu/rmds/portfolio/jefferson/index.html


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