[Neal_Meagher]

After watching some of the Schwab Cup from Sonoma GC today I am left perplexed and am hoping that some of the treehouse population can help calm me down.

Since I was the project designer for the complete reconstruction of the Sonoma GC in 1990 and am pretty aware of what each and every one of those greens does, I find it fairly odd as I watch the Golf Channel's coverage of the event when they talk about most of the putts on most of the greens as "breaking" toward San Pablo Bay (which is the northern-most appendage of S.F. Bay).  This, of course, brings to mind the same type of pablulum one hears in the winter when the Tour comes to the SoCal desert and the announcer-speak turns toward putts breaking toward Indio.  Am I the only one who finds this absurd?

Let's think about it.............as we all know greens contain micro-movements with complete disregard to their macro environment.  The only possible exception being very grainy bermudagrass greens that do have a pronounced tendency to create grain that slants toward the setting sun.

But, with a bentgrass/poa annua surface such as we find at Sonoma I just don't get it.  The Golf Channel announcers and the players they interview after their rounds all talk about the difficulty of "reading" the greens due to their relationship to the fall of the Sonoma valley to San Pablo Bay, but in reality lets think about the fact that each green has self-contained contours that have nothing, nothing to do with the presence of the bay which is about 15 miles away.

From the Sonoma site, the bay is due south whilst the Mayacamas mountains and the setting sun is due west, so the possible argument that the "grain" has something to do with the setting sun doesn't hold water.....or thatch.

This isn't the first or last time I have heard this from announcers or golfers and won't be the last.  I just want to understand it.  Tom Paul, are you listening, because I suppose more than most on this site you may be able to shed some light on this quandry.  I just want to know.

Thank you.

[jeffwarne]

That's why Trevino kept Herman around so long.
All putts broke toward him

My favorite is being told it goes toward the water.
when I'm playing on an island!

The actual fact is very FEW average players (or caddies) can read putts well, and are always inventing fantasies to explain miscalculations.

Gravity is under rated and grain is over rated (with rare exceptions such as bermuda in the growing season  -and new hybrids are easing that)

[Tom_Doak]

Neal:

I haven't been to Sonoma so I don't know the setting or the visuals.  But, it IS generally true that on a sloping site, putts break a bit more with the general slope than 99% of people see, because the eye tends to correct a general slope to look flat.

I know that at Crystal Downs, even though there are all kinds of micro (and macro) contours in the greens, after I take all of that in I add in something for the general tilt of the land [toward the eighth tee on the front nine], and it does make a difference.  That's why I can still kick guests' butts at Crystal Downs even though my game stinks.  I would be happy to show it to you sometime to prove the point but it's going to have to wait til next year now.

[JSPayne]

I can concur with Tom's post. Although appling a general slope "reading" of all the greens on a course to break a certain direction often doesn't actually apply to ALL the greens, I believe it a useful tip to trick the mind a bit into reminding oneself about the general contours and slope of the entire site towards a particular landmark.

Case(s) in point, Arbuckle GC in northern CA comes to mind, as you can see the Sutter Buttes from most holes and IN GENERAL, because of native push up greens using natural slopes, most putts break toward the Buttes, especially when they look to be mostly flat. Likewise, I honestly do believe that, once again, on sites with native push-up greens near any coast line, the majority of putts that seem relatively flat tend to break toward the water...which makes sense since a coastline course would obviously use the natural site drainage toward the sea.

[Bill_McBride]

Growing up in northern Marin County and playing high school matches at Sonoma regularly, I can say I have probably played more rounds on that great old course than most people on GCA.com.  I wish it were more accessible these days.  

I can also say without fear of serious debate that there is absolutely no disposition of those greens to break toward San Pablo Bay, that's almost a laughable statement!  The course is in a gently rolling valley between two coastal ranges of hills, and I have never felt there's any kind of tilt toward the south.

Instead there is enough rolling of the terrain that overall tilting of the greens goes in every direction.  It's one of the charming aspects of the great Muirfield routing.

[David_Tepper]

Neal -

I was up at the tournament in Sonoma on Thursday. (The course looked great by the way!) I followed the pairing of Crenshaw and McNulty (2 of the best all-time putters) on the front nine. While they did not make a lot of putts on Thursday, I saw they were -4 and -6 on Friday, so they must have figured a few things out about reading the greens. There have been a good number of other low scores as well, so at least some of the players are making putts.

I did see Tom Kite on TV interviewed "on the couch" after his Friday round. He did talk about how hard it was to read the greens and he mentioned how much grain the greens had, which I found very odd. I have not played at Sonoma in a few years, but I cannot recall the grain in the greens ever being an issue there.

I do think slightly sloped greens, on a property that also has some slope, can be deceptively hard to read. Olympic Lake and even Harding are similar to Sonoma in that regard.

DT    

[cary lichtenstein]

Anyone every play Avaria? We stayed there years ago and I hated the course. On the 2nd day, I walked into the pro shop and said "Ok, I give up, how to do read this greens?"

For those of you who have never played it, it is built into the ravines and you cannot tell which is the dominant slope.

The head pro said to me it is mostly a guessing game out there unless you have played the course many many times.

I had the same problem at 2 of Tom Weiskopf's course in the mountains, Red Sky and Corderilla in Steamboat Springs, Red Sky I played twice, but Corderilla I played 10 times and I would be happy not to play those 2 courses again.

Yet Pebble Beach, with all its Poa Annua, I can read without a problem, go figure.

[John_Cullum]

I rather enjoyed David Feherty's take on this. He spoke of all those high priced caddies at Pebble that always say it breaks toward the ocean. They are always right, but half of the time its breaking toward the Atlantic

[cary lichtenstein]

I rather enjoyed David Feherty's take on this. He spoke of all those high priced caddies at Pebble that always say it breaks toward the ocean. They are always right, but half of the time its breaking toward the Atlantic

And what about #7m with the ocean on  2 sides, which ocean?

[Peter Pallotta]

Neal
not really an answer, but a little speculation on why announcers say things like that. I think it has something to do with Ben Hogan. I think he once said that, all else being equal, greens break to the west...and announcers have been offering up variations on that theme (and exceptions to that rule) ever since.    

Peter

[John_Cullum]

I've never heard that Hoganism, but the more I learn of Hogan, I am convinced he was a real headcase

[Joe Hancock]

I tried to fabricate a Hoganism on the caption thread, but I went for a more obscure "Hogan's Heroes" angle.

Headcase, indeed......

Joe

[Mike_Cirba]

I've never heard that Hoganism, but the more I learn of Hogan, I am convinced he was a real headcase

OCD, anyone?  

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