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Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
For those of you familiar with his work, please debate and discuss amongst yourselves (for our benefit)!

Thanks,
jeffmingay.com

Todd Kuspira

Sagebrush
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2007, 11:56:44 PM »
Jeff,

I had a chance to get up to Sagebrush with Dick Zokol this past Sunday.  The project looks awesome!!!  It will definitely put golf in the BC Interior on the world map.  I can not wait to play it.

tk

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff, I think Simpson would be a definite canidate just based on his work in France alone. I do however think that there some other worthy canidates. I think Max Behr as a GA is very underappreciated, but that's because so little of his original work remains. Believe it or not, I think outside of California, despite GS's efforts,  George Thomas still doesn't get enough respect. But, this too may be due to alot of his courses being either lost or changed dramatically. Willie Watson is another who very few know anything about. Besides the original Interlachen (before Ross) and Minikahada courses in the midwest, he did some very good work here California and magazine articles from the early 20th considered him amongst the best working in the area at the time. And this was during the time of MacKenzie, Thomas/Bell, Behr. I'm sure others can name some other worthy canidates. I do agree Simpson doesn't get talked about enough.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Rich Goodale

I think Simpson suffers from the fact that the great majority of his solo efforts were for private aristocrats (Mountbatten, Rothschild, Sassoon, etc.) and/or in France.  Morfontaine certainly looks vaut le voyage from the pictures I've seen, but is that enough to put him in the pantheon of the greats?  Some of his most noted work in the Englsih speaking world was in revisions (e.g. Cruden Bay, Ballybunion, Royal Aberdeen) but it is unclear in these cases what work was his and what the work of earlier or later designers/remodelers.

He surely is one of the contenders for most outrageous, from his unabashed foppiness to his legendary arrogance.  I cherish his admonitions to a famous club who had asked him for some recommendations, where he first said, after perfunctorially praising the land:

"At the present moment however, there are many grave defects (to the course) which we shall enumerate."

And then later, when he suspected that the club might not accept all his recommendations and even choose to do the ones they wanted to by themselves, in their own way:

"Only one (or my clients) has attempted to do that and the result was a dismal and costly failure distressing to all parties."

What a sweet talking guy!

Rich

PS--does anybody have any info about the private courses Simpson designed?  It was one helluva client list and I wonder how many (if any) of those courses still exist, and in what form.  If even a fraction of them are lying out there either overgrown or otherwise neglected, there is a great opportunity for a forensic architect to (maybe) recreate some greatness.

R

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Let's make GCA grate again!

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
he is certainly one of the most interesting characters...

...and he designed County Louth (Baltray) which is one of my very favourite courses and has in the 14th hole the greatest short par-4 i know...

...some of his holes at Carlow aren't too shoddy either...

Rich Goodale

Thanks, Tony

What a great premature obituary by Longhurst!  Vis a vis Simpson's actual GCA work, however, it remains hidden behind the shroud of mystery.

Rich

PS--a quick Yahoo search seems to imply that the Birkmyre Estate course attributed to Simpson, may have been today's remote and funky Dalmunzie, which is generally attributed to Mackenzie.  Interesting.....

r

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
I have a feeling we'll be seeing more courses on here soon?


The first are all I have of the opening holes at Chiberta.








A few from New Zealand GC.









 
Let's make GCA grate again!

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
I played Morfontaine in the early '70's in an early 70's type haze (details will not be provided). I remember exactly nothing about the course.

Simpson's writings are feisty and very intelligent. For that reason he has always intrigued me.

If Simpson isn't the most underappreciated architect (and he might be - I don't know), he is certainly one who deserves a lot more attention.

Bob
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 07:44:18 AM by BCrosby »

Andrew Mitchell

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http://www.tomsimpson.org.uk/index.htm



Great research Tony.  I never knew that Keighley GC, in the town where I grew up, was a Simpson course.  Looking at their website I'm not sure they know either!
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Way O/T.

Keighley can mean only one thing to a man of a certain age. (Ignore the made up station name this is where it was shot).




Jenny Aguter :-* :-* :-*


Er...so what do you make of the Golf Course?
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 09:26:38 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tony
Exactly ;D

As a child I lived a mile or so from the Worth Valley Railway, where The Railway Children was filmed.  I remember going to watch some filming one day.  I came away with the impression that not much happened during a days filming other than a lot of people standing around apparently doing nothing!

The station name in the still from the film isn't made up - it really is Oakworth station.  The Keighley & Worth Valley Railway runs from Keighley, through Oakworth and Haworth (home to the Bronte family) to Oxenhope. More details here

Keighley is a typical northern textile town, famous for (in no particular order):
the Brontes
the railway
Timothy Taylor's Landlord bitter (as drunk by Madonna)
rugby league
and not much else!
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Andrew Mitchell

  • Karma: +0/-0
Sorry Tony

I got so carried away thinking about Jenny Agutter I forgot your supplementary question about the golf course :o

The course is a pleasant valley bottom parkland layout.  I don't know how much of Simpson remains, and the club don't appear to be acknowledging his input which seems strange.  There certainly isn't any of the quirkiness you might expect from him having played other Simpson courses, although obviously you couldn't expect the same given the land movement available at Keighley. There are some good holes there, notably the 4th, 10th, 13th and 17th, but its not a must play by any means.
2014 to date: not actually played anywhere yet!
Still to come: Hollins Hall; Ripon City; Shipley; Perranporth; St Enodoc

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Talking about carried away, I was smitten.  Then a few years later...

My father was a GP with a surgery across the road from Twickenham studio's and occasionally he would get calls to tender to the needs of people who are paid too much for apparently doing nothing but standing around.

The only time he ever told us in advance was when he asked me, his film buff eldest kid, if I'd like to join him as he was going to a location set that afternoon.  

So he checked his diary because he'd forgotten the name of the person he was going to attend to.  It was John Landis and he was shooting in the old Putney Hospital, but beyond that he could tell me nothing.  I had heard of him and it seemed a great way to spend an afternoon on a break from university.

John Landis was gracious and after he was attended to he asked if I wanted to see the next set up which was nearly ready?  We wandered down some corridors and



Golf, back to the golf.
« Last Edit: October 25, 2007, 09:58:16 AM by Tony_Muldoon »
Let's make GCA grate again!

SPDB

  • Karma: +0/-0
Yes. He was masterful when at work in imposing dunescapes and his holes are a thrill to play. I haven't seen enough of his work, but will make a point to seek his courses out in the future. I'm sold.

A couple from a recent trip around County Louth:












Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
there you go... second last photo... the fourteenth from behind the green... beautiful...

...tell me, on the society website, it refers to simpson's work at sunningdale new (reworking a lot of colt's original layout)... i know that there were 6 colt holes at the back of the estate that were erased in simpson's redesign as the land is quite hilly and the members didn't like them... the website makes it sound like some of simpson's work was also revised as the members didn't like it... am i reading that right?... if so, anyone know what?

thanks

Ulrich Mayring

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'm sold on Tom Simpson since playing Hardelot Les Pins. I never thought I could have so much fun playing a course cut into a forest. Colt's Le Touquet is nearby, but no match. Simpson is eccentric on a grand scale, without sacrificing playability.

Ulrich


Golf Course Exposé (300+ courses reviewed), Golf CV (how I keep track of 'em)

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Tony, Andrew

do you remember the film 'Walkabout' from 1971.  I do. :o  I was a young teenager then.  I have never forgotten Jenny Agutter in an outback setting.

I have less memories of her in her other films and series.

James B
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
I'll tell you what, a golf trip to Paris has jump to the top of my "to do" list.
jeffmingay.com

Mike_Cirba



Simpson, Schmimpson...

Can we have a captions contest for this picture and I can only imagine where this might go.   ;D


John Sabino

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jeff - I think Simpson is for sure one of the most underappreciated architects of all time. I recently played two more of his courses and was very impressed by how he designed holes that are truly unique. His nine hole Valliere course at Morfontaine, is a special place. Simpson had a knack for using the terrain artfully and very much like his work at Cruden Bay, it makes for a very fun round of golf. According to the club manager at Morfontaine, the first six holes on the Valliere course are completely unchanged from the way Simpson designed them and they were an impressive group of holes. The par three fourth hole on the Valliere course (pictured here) is one of the best I've ever played.




I also was lucky enough to play at Chantilly recently as well and from everything I've read, it is hard to tell which holes are the original Simpson holes. The par three 17th hole on the Vineuil course has all the earmarks of a great Simpson hole. The world atlas of golf describes it as being located in a 'secret dell' and it truly is a hidden masterpiece located in a small valley playing sharply down hill. I can't wait to play more Simpson courses to see more of how this eccentric genius operated.

Joe
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/

Paul_Turner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Played quite a few Simpson courses one of which is a hidden gem called Blackwell (posted these before):









A lot of his courses need a bit of love.  The bunkers at Hardelot look to have been screwed up for the use of "machine raking".
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 11:38:42 AM by Paul_Turner »
can't get to heaven with a three chord song

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great stuff.

Thanks for all replies (and, especially, photos); and, to you too, Todd, for your comments re Sagebrush. I look forward to further thoughts once the course is grown in, and you've played!

Best,
jeffmingay.com

Norbert P

  • Karma: +0/-0
 Though I've never played a course of his*, I am a big fan of his (and Wethered's) book The Architectural Side of Golf (1929).  The illustrations are inspiring and, from what I understand, the book that Ben Crenshaw showed to Jeff Bradley when explaining bunker designs that he wanted.

*I've played Dalmunzie! A possible Mackenzie / Simpson collaboration? New news to me Richard.
"Golf is only meant to be a small part of one’s life, centering around health, relaxation and having fun with friends/family." R"C"M

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
There is a Simpson course in Belgium called Royal Golf Club des Fagnes...

there is a good example shown on the below link of a great Simpson Par-3 from 1930 that has completely changed by 2006... they show photos of both and appear to be championing the new look... see what you think

http://spa.mygolf.be/

(would be great if someone could post the two photos, my skills in this area being very limited... thanks)

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