McConnell Golf

[Paul Jones]

McConnell Golf just purchased Holston Hills, a great Donald Ross in Knoxville, TN.

[Tommy Williamsen]

McConnell now owns eleven properties.
CC of Asheville
Brook Valley
Holston Hills
Musgrove Mill
Old North State
Providence CC
Raleigh CC
The Reserve Club at Pawleys Island
Sedgfield CC (two courses including the Dye course at the Cardinal)
Treyburn CC
TPC at Wakefield Plantation
They aren't all world beaters but certainly all very good. I have not played Brook Valley or Providence yet but have played the others.

[A.G._Crockett]

Does the grain impact putting speed, i.e. Faster down grain and slower into it?

Matt,
The grain DOES influence speed, though not nearly as much as on the old style bermuda greens; the new hybrids are so smooth that the impact of grain on the speed of the putt isn't nearly as noticeable.

Still, though, you have to read the grain properly in order to read the putt.  Again at the risk of overgeneralizing, even the new hybrids always break less than you think from the slope and more than you think from the grain as the putt loses speed.  Once you get used to it, I think maybe a little bit easier to putt than on bent IF the bermuda greens are fast.  If the bermuda is slow, all bets are off.

[A.G._Crockett]

We are converting to Bermuda as well and I just played Old Chatham which converted a few years ago and while the greens are smooth and fast they are also very very firm.  I mentioned this to our golf director and he told me that he spoke to the head pro at Hope Valley and they took a snapshot of handicaps before and after the conversion and they went up by an average of 4 strokes.

Jerry,

    Hope has an excessive amount of false fronts on the course which add to the difficulty with firm greens.  Champion and hybrids are wonderful in giving year long firm conditions even in the shoulder season.  I wish that HVCC did drill and fill 15 yards short of the greens and left that area dormant in shoulder season to add options of 3/4 shots. The approach areas aren't maint well for ground game options IMO.  I'd pass on dumbing down golf with soft bent greens 8 months a year. 
Mid Pines has improved vastly due to agronomy which is greatly over looked.

Dormie offer fast receptive greens which hold back the architecture in the shoulder season but I'm sure the retail golfer loves them.

Ben,
I rethought my reply to this post last night; as I went hole-by-hole through HVCC, I did come up with more false fronts than I expected, plus several other holes where the green is crowned so that the effect is similar.  I came up with 6 false fronts, plus 4 other holes that could be argued either way.  So I think you're right; that IS a lot.

That said, none of those greens have ever struck me as unfair or the fronts a particular problem, probably because the greens in general are VERY deep.

[Matt MacIver]

Does the grain impact putting speed, i.e. Faster down grain and slower into it?

Matt,
The grain DOES influence speed, though not nearly as much as on the old style bermuda greens; the new hybrids are so smooth that the impact of grain on the speed of the putt isn't nearly as noticeable.

A.G. - thanks for this, what I suspected. I played Mid-Pines a few weeks ago and it was VERY apparent - so much so I now have yet another golf skill I need to get better at. 


Tommy - I'd be happy to show you around Providence if you ever get to Charlotte.  It's a fine neighborhood course with OB and water in abundance, so it's a hard course for me, but we have plenty of low HC-ers that love it.  McConnell will materially renovate over the next 1-3 years with a "name" GCA, i.e Dye, Fazio, Doak, etc - he wants to drive membership in this way and south Charlotte doesn't have a course by any of the three. 

[BCowan]

We are converting to Bermuda as well and I just played Old Chatham which converted a few years ago and while the greens are smooth and fast they are also very very firm.  I mentioned this to our golf director and he told me that he spoke to the head pro at Hope Valley and they took a snapshot of handicaps before and after the conversion and they went up by an average of 4 strokes.

Jerry,

    Hope has an excessive amount of false fronts on the course which add to the difficulty with firm greens.  Champion and hybrids are wonderful in giving year long firm conditions even in the shoulder season.  I wish that HVCC did drill and fill 15 yards short of the greens and left that area dormant in shoulder season to add options of 3/4 shots. The approach areas aren't maint well for ground game options IMO.  I'd pass on dumbing down golf with soft bent greens 8 months a year. 
Mid Pines has improved vastly due to agronomy which is greatly over looked.

Dormie offer fast receptive greens which hold back the architecture in the shoulder season but I'm sure the retail golfer loves them.

Ben,
I rethought my reply to this post last night; as I went hole-by-hole through HVCC, I did come up with more false fronts than I expected, plus several other holes where the green is crowned so that the effect is similar.  I came up with 6 false fronts, plus 4 other holes that could be argued either way.  So I think you're right; that IS a lot.

That said, none of those greens have ever struck me as unfair or the fronts a particular problem, probably because the greens in general are VERY deep.

A.G.,

   I never said that the greens were unfair or implied that they were.  Jerry stated that the handicap increased by 4 strokes for the average member.  I also very much like HVCC and very much like hybrid bermuda greens which provide year round FIRM conditions.  My only suggestion was to firm up the green approaches to equal the firmness of the greens by the means of drill and fill or capping or non overseeding.  I feel as though 15+ handicaps or folks that don't generate enough spin would have a hard time holding the greens with false fronts.  It wish more southern courses that overseed would refrain from overseeding 10 yards short of the green to allow more options for the weaker player and all players in general.  The last thing I want is for Firm greens to get a bad reputation.  JMO

[hhuffines]

Played Hope Valley today and the greens were dry, firm and quick.  I really enjoyed the challenge and was forced to either putt or bump a 7 iron into a bank several times to leave myself a reasonable putt.  I believe there is a learning curve there as to where you can miss and expect to recover.  I do agree several of the green sites are elevated and there are only 5 or so legitimate chances to run an iron shot on.  Hope to see it more over the summer!

[Scott_Burroughs]

If my home course were switched to Raleigh CC or Sedgefield (Ross), my handicap would go up 4 strokes, too.  The green speeds are too fast for the slopes of the greens.

[A.G._Crockett]

If my home course were switched to Raleigh CC or Sedgefield (Ross), my handicap would go up 4 strokes, too.  The green speeds are too fast for the slopes of the greens.

I haven't played Sedgefield, but I'm surprised that you felt that way about Raleigh CC.  I played there when the greens were really running fast, and didn't feel like the contours were at all excessive, much less an AVERAGE of 4 shots on my best rounds.

This thing about handicaps going up 4 shots at HVCC is not at all what I've been told by members there; one guesstimate was more like a half a stroke.  Remember, that's 4 shots higher on a player's BEST rounds, not their average.  Silva softened the contours there when the greens were converted, and I just can't see much there that makes me think the 4 strokes figure could possibly accurate.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have played both of them quite a few times. The greens at Raleigh are very difficult. The greens hold relatively well so full shots aren't overly difficult. Chipping, pitching, and putting, are a different story unless you know where not to be. The first time I played the course I missed the third green on the left, which I thought was the safe side because the right falls off into a bunker and woods. The recovery shot, however, was treacherous. I was glad to make four.


I played Sedgfield before and after the greens regrassing. Before the greens were receptive, quick, and very gettable. Afterwards they got very firm and very fast. I do not score nearly as well as I did previously. They are not unfair but you need to be on your toes. They might be some of the best surfaces I have ever played.