McConnell Golf

[Tommy Williamsen]

McConnell Golf may purchase my club.  It already owns Treyburn CC, Raleigh CC and Cardinal CC in NC.  Do you have any information  about the firm?

[hhuffines]

Tommy,

The results Mr McConnell and his team have had here in NC have been very impressive and his members have benefitted
greatly at Raleigh CC.  He just finished fixing up the Cardinal and has plans for Treyburn.

The only word of caution is that each course so far has been
toughened considerably, which I like.

I am not a member, but anyone here should look for a game
at Raleigh!

[David_Madison]

Tommy,

Which club are you at. I'm in Chapel Hill, and I've heard rumors about his targeting different clubs in our area and the state.

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy,

Which club are you at. I'm in Chapel Hill, and I've heard rumors about his targeting different clubs in our area and the state.

David, I am at Musgrove Mill at Clinton SC. The deal is not signed and sealed but is pretty much a done deal.  I have heard only good things about him.

HHuffines, I promise you that Musgrove Mill does not need toughening.  It has the reputation of being one of the most difficult courses in the state.  The members love it just the way it is.

[hhuffines]

I have heard great things about Musgrove Mill but I bet
he finds a way.  Let us know if your handicap changes
by spring.

I wish Richard Mandell would share some of his photos on
the work he's done over at Raleigh.  Very, very nice work.

[Richard_Mandell]

Hart:

I will be glad to post some photos tomorrow when I am in the office.  Thanks for the nice thoughts and I look forward to hearing from you tomorrow.

[Tim Copeland]

http://www.mcconnellgolf.com/

[Richard_Mandell]

As promised, here are a few photos of the work we did at Raleigh CC.  We basically re-did the sand bunkers and many tees.  We overlaid Ross's plan and a 1951 aerial photograph on top of existing conditions, made adjustments because the greens were re-built in 1994, and then made the most logical decisions regarding the bunkers. Where all was possible, we replicated the original Ross sizes, shape, and locations.  There were no Ross detail plans.

This is a view of seven green from behind where we replicated a arge grass hollow complex from the Ross master plan:



On number 12, the second landing area previously had one non-descript sand bunker on each side of the fairway, but way out in the rough.  We re-introduced a trio of bunkers on both sides and moved them closer to the center of the fairway.  We also adjusted the locations to take into account today's distance concerns:



This is the seventeenth green (a par three about 148 yards from the tips and uphill):



On eighteen, we introduced two fairway bunkers in the landing area that were on the original Ross master plan, but never built.  We adjusted for distance:

[Bill_McBride]

Tommy,

Which club are you at. I'm in Chapel Hill, and I've heard rumors about his targeting different clubs in our area and the state.

David, I am at Musgrove Mill at Clinton SC. The deal is not signed and sealed but is pretty much a done deal.  I have heard only good things about him.

HHuffines, I promise you that Musgrove Mill does not need toughening.  It has the reputation of being one of the most difficult courses in the state.  The members love it just the way it is.

Tommy, I wish you had been around when I brought one of my sidekicks to play Musgrove Mill with Turboe a couple of years ago.  We had a great time although the course was pretty wet.  It sure is a solid course, a lot of strong holes, particularly at the finish of each nine.  That tiny pin location far upper right on #9 was especially memorable!  I hope the new owners figure out the drainage and leave the rest of it alone.

Great practice area by the way, and the cottages look very nice.

[hhuffines]

Richard,

Thanks very much for adding the photos.  It was your work on
#7 that really got me.  Fantastic stuff!  Thanks also for the
pic of #17, one of my very favorite short holes.

I'm lucky to have several member friends... thanks again!

[Richard_Mandell]

Hart:

Thanks for the nice words.  I'm glad you like what we did at #7.  One of the members, during construction, thought that was going to be sand and declared this isn't Pinehurst.  Funny when you don't look at the plan in the pro shop.

[hhuffines]

Tommy, curious after all these years if Musgrove Mill has been made more difficult or plays about the same?


The McConnell Group has done a really nice job at Treyburn with conditioning.  I don't get over there much but was very impressed today, especially with the bent greens which were smooth and quick.  Several decent iron shots landed near edges of the green and were swept off a la #2.  The more I play it the more I like it.

[Jerry Kluger]

Hart: I really enjoyed Treyburn and different from what I typically see as a Fazio course such as Hasentree.  The bent grass greens are really good and are further proof that you can have really good bent grass greens in the Raleigh area.

[Greg Holland]

Greensboro CC Farm course has bent greens as well -- it is not McConnell owned -- but the bent greens are excellent there.  They may get a bit soft in late July and August when they are watered a lot, but the rest of the year they are great. 

[Tommy Williamsen]

Tommy, curious after all these years if Musgrove Mill has been made more difficult or plays about the same?

There were cosmetic changes but essentially plays the same. Three floods in the last year, however, did some unwanted redesign work on holes 6 and 15.

[Philip Hensley]

Possible to have bent grass greens in Raleigh, but very unusual unless it is a private club. The further west/northwest you go in NC the better the conditions are for bent.

[Jay Mickle]

Played  McConnell's Sedgefield a couple o weeks ago, It had the finest Bermuda greens one could hope to play. They were firm, fast and true with little if any graininess. they also held approach shots even from hickory clubs. They were surely the best of the Champion greens I have played and superior golf to the Mini Verdi. Greenskeeping or Hybrid type I don't know, but I look forward to being invited back.
The member I played with was very pleased with the McConnell group.

[hhuffines]

Our course is currently transitioning to bermuda greens so it's been fun visiting other courses and seeing how they manage their surfaces.  It has occurred to me that Hope Valley (Ross w bermuda) and Treyburn (Fazio w bent) offer a really nice contrast in design and putting surfaces.


Sentimentally I will miss playing mostly on bent but I am growing to like the champion greens.  I realize I only need to visit our mountains or head farther north to play on bent.


When does Pine Needles start their conversion?

[Philip Hensley]

End of June

[Jerry Kluger]

We are converting to Bermuda as well and I just played Old Chatham which converted a few years ago and while the greens are smooth and fast they are also very very firm.  I mentioned this to our golf director and he told me that he spoke to the head pro at Hope Valley and they took a snapshot of handicaps before and after the conversion and they went up by an average of 4 strokes. 

[A.G._Crockett]

I've played several of the McConnell courses, and I think you can generalize to say that a McConnell course WILL be in the best condition possible within the parameters allowed by Mother Nature.  I also have yet to talk to a member that was dissatisfied with the way the club was run.  A possible exception to this are some of the Sedgefield members, for reasons having to do with the merger of Sedgefield with The Cardinal into one club.

As to converting greens to bermuda, it's really kind of a no-brainer in NC and south IF you have to do anything at all to the existing greens.  The various bermudas can get a little bit grainy and weird out of the growing season, but once they are growing, you can make them almost any speed you want.  I'd guess that within the next 20 years, maybe less, bent grass will disappear except in the mountains; every course will have converted.

[A.G._Crockett]

We are converting to Bermuda as well and I just played Old Chatham which converted a few years ago and while the greens are smooth and fast they are also very very firm.  I mentioned this to our golf director and he told me that he spoke to the head pro at Hope Valley and they took a snapshot of handicaps before and after the conversion and they went up by an average of 4 strokes.

Jerry, I think something must have gotten garbled in the translation.  4 strokes is a HUGE change, and nobody that I know at HVCC has experienced anything like that.  Were that sort of change commonplace, you'd hear a lot more about it, and see a lot fewer courses converting.

As to the firmness of champion bermuda, at HVCC or anywhere else, while it is true that you don't see wedges spinning back off the green, you also don't see well-struck shots bouncing like they just hit concrete.   In fact, if you hit into the grain, you may wish the ball had run MORE, not less.

[Matt MacIver]

Does the grain impact putting speed, i.e. Faster down grain and slower into it?

[BCowan]

We are converting to Bermuda as well and I just played Old Chatham which converted a few years ago and while the greens are smooth and fast they are also very very firm.  I mentioned this to our golf director and he told me that he spoke to the head pro at Hope Valley and they took a snapshot of handicaps before and after the conversion and they went up by an average of 4 strokes.

Jerry,

    Hope has an excessive amount of false fronts on the course which add to the difficulty with firm greens.  Champion and hybrids are wonderful in giving year long firm conditions even in the shoulder season.  I wish that HVCC did drill and fill 15 yards short of the greens and left that area dormant in shoulder season to add options of 3/4 shots. The approach areas aren't maint well for ground game options IMO.  I'd pass on dumbing down golf with soft bent greens 8 months a year. 
Mid Pines has improved vastly due to agronomy which is greatly over looked.

Dormie offer fast receptive greens which hold back the architecture in the shoulder season but I'm sure the retail golfer loves them. 

[A.G._Crockett]

We are converting to Bermuda as well and I just played Old Chatham which converted a few years ago and while the greens are smooth and fast they are also very very firm.  I mentioned this to our golf director and he told me that he spoke to the head pro at Hope Valley and they took a snapshot of handicaps before and after the conversion and they went up by an average of 4 strokes.

Jerry,

    Hope has an excessive amount of false fronts on the course which add to the difficulty with firm greens.  Champion and hybrids are wonderful in giving year long firm conditions even in the shoulder season.  I wish that HVCC did drill and fill 15 yards short of the greens and left that area dormant in shoulder season to add options of 3/4 shots. The approach areas aren't maint well for ground game options IMO.  I'd pass on dumbing down golf with soft bent greens 8 months a year. 
Mid Pines has improved vastly due to agronomy which is greatly over looked.

Dormie offer fast receptive greens which hold back the architecture in the shoulder season but I'm sure the retail golfer loves them.

Ben,
HVCC softened the contours, including false fronts, when they converted the greens.  There ARE false fronts, but they aren't that numerous or at all unfair.  The greens in general have lots of run-offs all around, and not just on the fronts.