Fazio's Dallas National Golf Club

[Kirk Gill]

I've heard a lot of good things about this course. Hilly terrain, pretty long, a strong feeling of seclusion, in short some of Fazio's best work. I know that Mr. F is not all that popular with some, but of those who have played the course, what are your thoughts, and how does this course compare with the best of Texas?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Being new to Texas this is a course that I would love to see.  I don't think that I've ever spoken directly with anyone who has played it, but through word of mouth I have heard good things.  They have a nice hole by hole photo course tour on their website that I was looking at last night...

http://www.dallasnationalgolfclub.com/Default.aspx?p=DynamicModule&pageid=244793&ssid=100610&vnf=1

[Adam Clayman]

The site is spectacular, rising some 200 feet off the Dallas floor. The club house and ambience are relaxing and congenial.
 DN is a good golf course. If you're preferences lean towards the Fazio style you'd likely consider it better.
As I recall from my one play, there was at least one very bold green, bordering on the unplayable, at speeds over 10. Conditioning was also top notch.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Adam
Just one of those greens are bold?

Bold is as strong as you would go?

How about friggin' nuts!

I have played the course about 6 times and fits the usual Fazio analysis..enjoyed it, nice golf course, well designed, another Fazio.
I have never played a "bad" Fazio course, but have never played  "great" one either.

For Dallas, the terrain is indeed spectacular..well worth a visit tp play, but I do think somewhat overated poll wise.

[Jeff_Brauer]

I've played it twice and its everything its cracked up to be.  Worth a play if you get a chance.

Call me crazy, but as a Dallas Morning News panelist, I actually voted Fazio's Vaquero in Southlake higher.  While the land isn't as spectacular, it allowed Fazio to do what he does best - shape everying, while I get the feeling that the slopes and solid rock at DN either forced him to shape a bit less, or a bit less well.  Or, he felt the site was so spectacular that the bunkering didn't have to have as much flair, whereas he has some big waste bunkers at Vaquero that I like.

But both are very, very good.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Jeff
As you can see, I am not as impressed as you, but also as a panelist I to voted the same way for exactly the same reasons...hmmm...

[Jeff_Brauer]

you must be a very intelligent person!

[Anthony_Nysse]

Kirk,
  I'm moving to Ft. Worth, TX in 2 weeks. I will report about DN shortly thereafter.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Eric Smith]

Kirk,
  I'm moving to Ft. Worth, TX in 2 weeks. I will report about DN shortly thereafter.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Anthony,

I'll bet you're gonna miss the island.  I left in 96 and still miss it. Good luck with the move.

Eric

[John Kavanaugh]

Kirk,
  I'm moving to Ft. Worth, TX in 2 weeks. I will report about DN shortly thereafter.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Where you working..Z Boaz or Colonial.  Do they have a computer in the shop?

[John_Conley]

Dallas National is terrific.  Like Brauer, (or do I say "with Brauer"!) I've seen that and Vaquero.  Unlike Jeff, I thought Vaquero's setting - MASSIVE homes....everything's big in Texas - and inferior terrain prevented it from being as good as DN.

He's right about the shaping at Vaquero.  This is like crediting an average looking girl for getting her makeup and hair right!  

Dallas National is the Cindy Crawford, Vaquero is the Debra Messing.  It takes a lot of work for her to look as good.

A lot of people have sung the song, but I think Dave Edmunds wrote the lyric.

There are some things you can't cover up with lipstick and pow-der

Vaquero is very good, but its setting isn't as nice as Dallas National.

[Adam Clayman]

MWP- Frank has left the building.

Taking a page from the beloved figure, accentuating the positives is all that's prudent.

[Anthony_Nysse]

Kirk,
  I'm moving to Ft. Worth, TX in 2 weeks. I will report about DN shortly thereafter.

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Where you working..Z Boaz or Colonial.  Do they have a computer in the shop?

John,
  Colonial CC will be my next stop. A true, solid, traditional course, PGA Tour event, bentgrass greens with a very detailed Keith Foster renovation next summer. Can't wait. Oh, and who needs a computer if you have a PDA?   Just to get my GCA fix!
 Eric,
  There is no place like HHI...anywhere. I've got 4 years here and many friends!

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[John Kavanaugh]

Colonial could be the most overrated course on the Golfweek Classic list at #48.  You will have your work cut out for you keeping that up.

No way it is better than Newport and I haven't seen either one.

[Bart Bradley]

Played Dallas National 2 years ago...I think Dallas National is one of the best Fazio's I have played...probably the best.  It is wonderfully manicured, fast greens and an enjoyable layout...I think it is worthy of TOP 100 classification.  Don't miss it, if you are given the opportunity.

[Trey Kemp]

Kirk, I worked on the Maintenance crew at Dallas National while I was in graduate school so I have pretty good knowledge of the course.  I also may have a biased opinion of the course but I feel it is the best course I have played in Texas.  I have not played Whispering Pines (ranked #1 in Texas by the Dallas Morning News), but I have played all of the other top courses in the state.  

Dallas National is so unique to the Dallas area because of the terrain and how close it is to downtown Dallas.  From the back or Texas tees (7,326 yards) it is also the toughest Fazio course I have played.  For me Dallas National is a great challenge and it makes me think on every shot.

Besides the golf course Dallas National probably has the best practice facilities that I have ever seen.  There is a 130-yard wide practice range with tees on both ends and eight bunkered target greens, a separate warm-up area 30 yards from the first tee, and my  favorite part is the short-game practice area with the six bent grass greens secluded in a grove of trees.

[Anthony_Nysse]

John,
  Colonial COULD be overrated...but so COULD be Victoria National, your club......to each their own, but I'd probably keep my mouth shut until I've played them before comparing them. Word to the wise....

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

[Joe Andriole]

I am not a big Fazio fan but I think that this is an excellent course and one of his best.  Also, I know of no other Fazio design with as many uphill holes.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Trey -- Dallas National is better than Whispering Pines.
Dallas National is in my opinion between a 7 and an 8, and as there are no 8s in Texas -- as far as I know -- it leads the pack.
The setting is fantastic.
The maintainance too.

Some greens were a little wild for the setting, and they didn't relate to the fairways well enough -- completely random.

Some holes average -- a few excellent.

[Sam Morrow]

Trey -- Dallas National is better than Whispering Pines.
Dallas National is in my opinion between a 7 and an 8, and as there are no 8s in Texas -- as far as I know -- it leads the pack.
The setting is fantastic.
The maintainance too.

Some greens were a little wild for the setting, and they didn't relate to the fairways well enough -- completely random.

Some holes average -- a few excellent.

Call me crazy but I think Whispering Pines is not all it's made out to be. I would take Pines Dunes over WP.

[Mike Nuzzo]

Sam,
You can have Pine Dunes...

I thought Pine Dunes was very good -- 5.5
But, it had more pedestrian holes, a couple clunkers.
The short fours didn't work for me.
The setting seemed forced in spots -- at least one lake and some of the pine straw.
The maint was average -- this was a few years ago.

Whispering pines had some excellent holes to go with some of their clunkers -- 6.5
Way over watered a few years back.
They had their big event recently - for which I'd guess it was tip-top.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I am surprised that DN is getting so much love here.
I think it is good, but has some very mediocre holes..especially its first and last.
The par threes are wonderful, but the par fives are very mundane amd provide very little challenge.
The terrain is marvelous and Fazio did a remarkable job to incorporate as nuch elevation cahnge as he could, he certainly optimised the elevation changes.
Several of the greens require some softening to be truly playable to more than two pin placements, but the practice area is one of the finest I have ever seen.

To those who have played Briggs Ranch in San Antonio, do you not see too much similarity?

If Frank has left the building so be it..opinions are still what this site is all about.
I am always trying to learn and appreciate others viewpoints and see perahps what I am missing..so thanks for all the comments

[SPDB]

Who was the TF design associate at Dallas National?

[Trey Kemp]

Michael,

Good point about Briggs Ranch, it did remind me a lot of Dallas National.  I do feel that Dallas National has several stronger holes and the practice facility is better.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Trey,
I can go for that, but they are two of the best for practicing.
I know that Bill Rogers had alot to do with the practice area at Briggs.
As I have said before..never played a bad Fazio

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