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Stephen Brown

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Chanticleer (G'Ville, SC)
« on: August 11, 2002, 09:11:36 AM »

I understand that Greenville Country Club's delightful Chanticleer course has recently reopened after a major renovation/rerstoration.  Does anyone know anything about the changes ?  Which archie was responsible for the work.  I hate to think that this brilliant RTJ layout was signifigantly altered.

Steve Brown
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanticleer (G'Ville, SC)
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2002, 05:05:14 AM »
Somebody with knowledge please reply.  Next to Pointe O' Woods, this is my favorite RTJ design.  I hoped to get back and play it again.  It has been over five years.  Is it still there?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

J_McKenzie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanticleer (G'Ville, SC)
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2002, 02:49:24 PM »
Steve and David:

Not to worry, the changes to Chanticleer were primarily cosmetic (new turf, level tees, drainage, irrigation, etc.).  The most notible changes, in my opinion, are found in the new green at the par 3, 16th Hole, (the old green had become almost unfair at modern green speeds) and the bunkers that were added to the right side of the fairway at Hole #11.  These bunkers greatly improve the look of the hole from the tee and better define the landing area.  Length was added where it could and I' m sure fairway bunkers were shifted to accommadate today's technology.  The practice area was also much improved by increasing tee space and adding a short game practice green.

I had not played the golf course many times prior to the renovation and have only played the course a few times since the reopening.  I'm sure the members notice a lot more of the changes, but I didn't see a big difference.  And that's probably for the best since there is no reason to mess with a good thing.

Rees Jones was responsible for the redesign and he did a nice job as usual.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanticleer (G'Ville, SC)
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2002, 07:43:09 PM »
Wow - great news.  I wonder if the fact that Rees did it will taint the opinion of some on this site?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

Stephen Brown

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanticleer (G'Ville, SC)
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2002, 06:44:28 AM »
J-

Thanks so much.  I will be in the Greenville area, in the middle of September, and plan on playing.  WIll report back with all the details.  Thanks again.  ;D

Steve Brown
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanticleer (G'Ville, SC)
« Reply #5 on: August 13, 2002, 09:52:21 PM »
I have played Chanticleer at least 20 times... twice since the reopening. Following are the primary changes/improvements to the course:

1) Improved bunkers are the primary change. In the past the bunkers were, for the most part, relatively flat... with the bottom of many of the greenside bunkers above the putting surface of the green. ALL of the bunkers, especially the greenside bunkers, are much deeper and "rounder," with what I would call a "catcher's mitt" shape. A few new ones have been added, here and there, for shape and definition, but, overall, there is not much change in the basic look of the course.

2) Par 3 #16 is the single biggest change. It is a new and greatly improved hole. New green: larger... flatter... fairer... with several pin position possibilities that never existed before. New greenside bunkers on the left give the hole a great look.

3) LOTS of trees have been removed between the holes, opening up sight lines and giving the course a more open feel. In a few places this openness gives an "Augusta" type feeling where you can observe action on three or four holes at the same time.

Overall, even the most experienced Chanticleer player has to stop and really look to see the small changes to the course. At times you ask yourself, "was that bunker there before or is it new?" If you loved the look of Chanticleer before the renovation you will not be disapointed. With all the hype from the members leading up to the reopening I was really surprised at the lack of obvious changes - I was expecting much more. Then I was reminded that the main reasons for renovating Chanticleer were drainage problems throughout the course and poor greens.

The only "problem" with the renovation seems to be the greens. To be kind, they are mediocre. Obviously, Greenville has not had ideal conditions in which to bring in new greens, but the members are steamed about waiting 18 months and spending millions of dollars to get back a course with "better bunkers and sorry greens," to quote one of my member friends. The condition of the greens was the primary reason for rebuilding Chanticleer and most of the members I know are biting their tongues waiting to see if cooler weather will give them a better return on their investment. I think it is fair to say that, because of all the hype, they are embarrassed by the current condition of the greens. They were so excited to have their course reopen after spending millions of dollars trying to solidify their Golf Digest Top 100 ranking. They brought Rees Jones to town to tout his changes including the newest high tech grasses, drainage, and irrigation. Then, BOOM... slow, fuzzy, burned greens that really don't seem like much of an improvement over what they had. Long term the greens have to be better, but right now they're not too good. I don't know much about growing grass, but I hope to God that what Chanticleer is experiencing is symptomatic of a "new" course at this stage of development. If not, there are a lot of members that are going to raise the roof.

The rest of the course is excellent. The ball sits on the fairway like a tight hairbrush... I don't remember having a bad lie. And the drainage is unbelievably improved: I played just a few days after a major storm flooded the river running through the course and all the fairways were relatively dry. In the past Chanticleer would have been a mudhole for weeks!

My final observation... Chanticleer is set up as a hard course. Very hard. Harder than it has to be, in my opinion. The fairways are cut overly tight, with thick heavy rough that virtually guarantees a bogey if you don't keep it on the cut grass. On a number of holes there is only a tiny spot where you MUST hit your tee shot or you are dead. The standing joke among the members I know is that Chanticleer is set up for about 25-30 of the club's elite golfers. And, I'll have to admit, it is quite a challenge to play... but, it's not a lot of fun. I enjoy having the opportunity to play it 4 or 5 times a year, but I'm glad I don't have to play it every week. I'd pull out the little bit of hair I have left!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

David Wigler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Chanticleer (G'Ville, SC)
« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2002, 05:25:37 AM »
Thank you so much for the report and welcome to the site.  An outstanding first post!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
And I took full blame then, and retain such now.  My utter ignorance in not trumpeting a course I have never seen remains inexcusable.
Tom Huckaby 2/24/04

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