Another panelist story......

[Dan Kelly]

... damned if I'm gonna re-type the handbook into here.  They're all common sense.  Just do know they do exist.

I don't want you to retype the handbook.

How about just the rules that are at issue here?

For example:

I know how I would answer this questions, but I don't know how common sense would:

Am I allowed to ask for free rounds, for myself and/or any guests?

Dan

[Tom Huckaby]

... damned if I'm gonna re-type the handbook into here.  They're all common sense.  Just do know they do exist.

I don't want you to retype the handbook.

How about just the rules that are at issue here?

For example:

I know how I would answer this questions, but I don't know how common sense would:

Am I allowed to ask for free rounds, for myself and/or any guests?

Dan

A GD panelist is allowed to ask to bring guests, but should NEVER expect free rounds even for himself.  In fact it's stated that we should not ask for comps for ourselves, so of course we shouldn't for guests we ask to bring.

It's also stated that if comps are offered, we can accept such, but only for golf - nothing else.

TH

[Mike Erdmann]

And after all this time, it suddenly occurs to me:

What are the RULES that govern Ranker Behavior?

Are there any?

What are they?

I would love to have the panelists for the various publications post the rules that govern them.

Here are the course visit guidelines from the Golfweek raters manual Code of Conduct.  Note paragraphs b) and i).....

Course visit guidelines:
a.) Initiate the inquiry well in advance, at least a week ahead, ideally a month ahead, and not at the last minute. Introduce
yourself as a rater for Golfweek and indicate your willingness to fax a copy of your rater ID card or present it upon arrival. Unless you are a salaried employee of Turnstile Publishing Company (which most of you are not), do not identify yourself as "an
employee of Golfweek” or someone who is "working for" the magazine.
b.) Expect to pay a green fee, whether it’s the rate for unaccompanied guests, the normal daily-fee rate, or the professional courtesy rate. Do not ask for any discount. If you are traveling and in the company of another golfer who is not a rater, let the club know and ask to pay for the guest as well as yourself. Do not attempt to bring more than one guest under any circumstances. This is an absolute no-no.
c.) Don’t expect to play on weekends, certainly not on the mornings of Saturday, Sunday and holidays during valued tee
times. Confine your visits to quieter times of the week and the calendar.
d.) Raters are subject to the same rules as any guest at the club. You must abide by all rules for tee times, cart policy, dress code, etc.
e.) Dress code: dress like you’re working, which you are. That means dressing conservatively. Shorts are fine, unless the course
has a dress code prohibiting them. If at a private club or resort, do not change your shoes in the parking lot; ask to use the locker room or to leave your things in the pro shop. Under no circumstances are you to use a cellphone on the course or near the clubhouse.
f.) If you are playing golf with club staff or members, play a friendly game and limit any wagering to very modest sums.
g.) Tip. Don’t be afraid to show some gratitude to the bag boy, locker room attendant, etc. The only time you should not tip is if club policy absolutely prohibits it, but those cases are extremely rare.
h.) Don’t linger in the pro shop as if you’re looking for free merchandise. Better yet, buy a hat or shirt.
i.) Don’t expect to be granted access to these clubs. Many clubs and facilities have exclusive policies prohibiting raters from
playing as raters. If that’s the case, thank them and move on to another facility. Clubs are under no obligation to accommodate you.
j.) Be prepared to explain the procedure. Read this handbook carefully, familiarize yourself with Golfweek policy and rating
criteria, and if needed, give a concise account of our methodology.
k.) At the end of the round, you can have general discussions with facility staff members about your overall views of the golf
course, but you may not discuss specific ballot numbers. And please do not play "golf course critic for the day" by telling them
exactly what you think about their course. Don’t lie, but be polite and diplomatic and spare them any "tough love" lectures.
 

[Craig Van Egmond]

Mike,

      What are the penalties for violating the code of conduct?

[Mike Erdmann]

Craig, I don't know exactly how GW handles complaints about rater conduct, but I do know of raters who have been removed from the panel for conduct violations.

[David_Madison]

Golf Digest's rules are very similar to those of GW's - - same general approach to access, payment of green fees, and so on.

The vast majority of the time when I rate a course I'm doing so with another panelist or my now teenage son (some of you may remember him from the gathering at Cuscowilla a few years back.) The advantages of playing with the other panelist are obvious - - we discuss and debate endlessly the merits of what we're playing or just played, and that helps us both to sharpen our analysis. As for playing with my son, it's an incredible priviledge to have the opportunity to show and teach him about the game's history and architecture in a way that I could never do otherwise.

I saddens and sickens me to hear of the abuses, and I can only hope that those managing the process throughout the industry have a zero tolerance when they learn of these situations. Knowing the professional in charge at GD, a very reputable person who I believe when appropriate can be stricter than any school teacher from days past, I trust that these situations are handled appropriately.

[Bob_Huntley]

Gib,

If you think you are filled with remorse over losing to Stanford, it is as nothing compared to the deep mourning,
complete with sackcloth and ashes  of two countries from the Antipodes.

Australia lost to the 'bloody Pommie bastards' and New Zealand, the ne plus ultra of rugby dominance, lost to the damn Froggies.

You win some, you lose some, sometimes arrogance gets punished.

Bob

[Ken Fry]

Just a story to offer another perspective on this conversation.

A good friend, the head pro at a "top 100 club," was contacted by another club a few years ago.  This club was just completing a major renovation and was soliciting resumes for a new head professional.  Not to take anything away from my friend but he was contacted because he was employed at one of the clubs on "the list."

It's easy for many to blow off ratings and lists for whatever reason.  For some clubs, members of clubs, owners and/or investors, ANY affiliation with a "Top List" carries a lot of weight.  Whether it's right or wrong, the architects, superintendents and golf pros out there know inclusion on "a list" can mean something.

Ken

[Michael Christensen]

one major point everyone is not addressing:  do you really think this piece of garbage who said "do you know who I am?" or "I can make or break a course" just started this behavior that day? or that month?? or that decade???  Obviously this person has run rough shod over clubs for a long, long time.  Do you think for one second one of these clubs didn't call to complain??  His behavior was tolerated by some clubs due to leverage/fear/who knows what.  But what about the clubs who complained and nothing was done over and over and over again???  Someone has this guy's back at the highest level of the publication.  How can this person still be a rater after this type of behavior for a period of time??  

Something is very, very wrong.

[Mike_Young]

Gib,
I would agree with most everything in your post.  The only issue i would have is the percentages you mention vs. my guestimate.
When you say:
"The simple truth is that 90% of the time, we are thoughtfully rating new offerings or remodeled clubs proud to show their makeovers to a panel of experts."
The different panels are made up in entirely different ways thus consisting of entirely different types of panelists.  Would you agree?  And I think the intent of the "men in charge" of each panel is honorable.  If you combined all the different panelist from the different panels....would you say more than 50% percent are "experts"?  I just don't see where they are.  For a large percentage, the ability to travel is a major advantage moreso than expertise...

"That is not arrogance, just fact. Most "raters" - as we are often derisively dismissed - are blessed with friends all over the nation and do not consider their seat on the panel to be an entitlement program."
Again I respectfully disagree as to the percentage......many of the local guys i know that are panelist do't fit this mold and openly speak of their ability to gain access...YES THEY MAY BE A MINORITY...but they stick out much more than the quiet panelist.

"I think how an individual views the concept of "rating panels" speaks directly to their personal beliefs in the integrity of their fellow golfer - and also perhaps to their selfish unwillingness to share their home with a few fellow students of the game."
I disagree.....there are golfers and there are people that play golf....I try to judge both on an individual basis and not by an organization they belong such as a panel.....BUT the panelist that create such problems affect the integrity of the system.

Hope all is well.
Mike

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Please make the check out to Surfers Healing, I prefer to start your healing process now!

It can't be mere coincidence that I read this post IMMEDIATELY after watching this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdbxLk8_C8c

NO METAPHORS INTENDED, I assure you.

Where is PETA when you need them!!!

[John Kavanaugh]

I think how an individual views the concept of "rating panels" speaks directly to their personal beliefs in the integrity of their fellow golfer - and also perhaps to their selfish unwillingness to share their home with a few fellow students of the game.

An unreasonable and regretable comment.  Several of the posters on this thread who have commented against the process have offered to host many of us at their courses.  Most of us have even taken them up on the offer.

[Mark Chaplin]

Wayne et al,

For those of you at the more private clubs I'd suggest a panellists day each year. Choose a Monday, no guests, a fee upfront to cover food, caddie and greenfee (if desired). Lay on the club historian or other suitable member or employee to speak over lunch.

I'm sure the panellists "need" the top clubs more than the top clubs need the panellists. The publication would look daft if xxx a traditional top 20 course was suddenly rated 43rd because it treated the raters harshly.

One UK golf mag doesn't feature Swinely Forest or Queenwood in their top 100. I guess the clubs didn't let them in on their terms!

 

[jeffwarne]

Mike,
"Do they know who you are"
"You could make or break that team"
Now if they can just seat you next to nice coed you could....

Well ,I got a glowing report on the place from my recent panelist
 Complete with "suggestions"

My favorite on his 10 point list of superlatives.
(direct quotes-not kidding)
#3 Crab grass:not one sighting. Perfect hole surgical contouring (whatever that means)-manicuring by Rees Jones and team + your entire maintenance team on a daily basis.

The other 9 points are quite amusing as well.

After receiving this I sent him a polite reply suggesting that he send along a check to pay his caddie- (who he referred to as excellent and very knowledgeable in his review)
The rest I will take up with the magazine-stay tuned

[Jim Franklin]

Mike,
"Do they know who you are"
"You could make or break that team"
Now if they can just seat you next to nice coed you could....

Well ,I got a glowing report on the place from my recent panelist
 Complete with "suggestions"

My favorite on his 10 point list of superlatives.
(direct quotes-not kidding)
#3 Crab grass:not one sighting. Perfect hole surgical contouring (whatever that means)-manicuring by Rees Jones and team + your entire maintenance team on a daily basis.

The other 9 points are quite amusing as well.

After receiving this I sent him a polite reply suggesting that he send along a check to pay his caddie- (who he referred to as excellent and very knowledgeable in his review)
The rest I will take up with the magazine-stay tuned

Jeff - You have me very curious. What place are we talking?

[jeffwarne]

Epilogue;
I received a very professional phone call from the editor in charge of golf course ratings at the magazine in question.
Mortified would be the best way to describe the reaction.

Someone picked it up here and reported it to the magazine.
I was gathering sufficient email evidence before contacting them
(which I now have, complete with a ten item report from the panelist, yet another no-no)
It's shame because he loved the place. (what's not to love about free stuff-even if it's not free)

The particular panelist was evidently already on "double secret probation" (my words not theirs).

There's one less panelist as of now.
Perhaps the process works after all.

[Michael Christensen]

good for everyone in the process...this piece of garbage should be singled out and shown to the masses of how not to act!  Now onto the other miscreants who use their leverage to get freebies for themselves and friends on the clubs' dime!

[Greg Tallman]

this just keeps getting better.
(Note I'm not trying to indict raters but this does make good sportreading)
When bullying my shop attendant for a cart, the rater stated
"I can make or break a golf course"
(somewhat hard to when a course is sold out and the owner doesn't care whether I let raters play or not)

at the 1/2 way house-"Do you know who I am?"
Then proceeds to help himself to snacks,sandwiches, beers,etc. without paying and tells the girl he's "a friend of mine"
Makes multiple incoherant inappropriate remarks concluding with "If you want it baby it's right here so come and get it"
as he stuffs a $10 bill (which wouldn't sniff what he ordered ) into her breast pocket oh not so gently.

I'm emailing him as we speak and will be calling the magazine after I get a response.

I think Mike Young kind've sums it up above, but I really don't care either way.

Jeff,

Please send me the name of this person so we have it on file in the event he pops up south of the border. I would honestly appreciate such a system whereby people who act in this manner are identified and circulated among those from whom they will be seeking freebies in the future. Thank you in advance.

[Jim Franklin]

Epilogue;
I received a very professional phone call from the editor in charge of golf course ratings at the magazine in question.
Mortified would be the best way to describe the reaction.

Someone picked it up here and reported it to the magazine.
I was gathering sufficient email evidence before contacting them
(which I now have, complete with a ten item report from the panelist, yet another no-no)
It's shame because he loved the place. (what's not to love about free stuff-even if it's not free)

The particular panelist was evidently already on "double secret probation" (my words not theirs).

There's one less panelist as of now.
Perhaps the process works after all.

Jeff -

Well done. You did the right thing and our panel will be better for it.

[Joel_Stewart]

Jim:

I agree and even though the panel receives yearly instructions about being a panelist they need to to send an email to all panelist and say "today we kicked off a panelist because of bad behavior" just to prove their point.

[Ray Richard]

In the past, the Boston Globe sports writers traveled with the Red Sox and Patriot team planes for free, with all the food, beverage, hotel and travel expenses picked up by the individual teams. A few years ago, a new editor stopped this practice because of a perceived conflict of interest. Now the respective teams are reimbursed at full rate for all expenses incurred by a traveling writer.

Why can’t the golf magazines do the same thing-reimburse the club for green fees, meals etc? They all have huge circulations with big media backing so they should be able to afford it. This will get away from the comp and shakedown culture that seems to pervade today.

[Mike Sweeney]

Why can’t the golf magazines do the same thing-reimburse the club for green fees, meals etc? They all have huge circulations with big media backing so they should be able to afford it. This will get away from the comp and shakedown culture that seems to pervade today.

Just to be clear, Golfweek has a circulation of 150,000 or so and Golf and Golf Digest are roughly 1.5 MM.

[corey miller]

The magazines can't afford to do this and what percentage of raters would drop out if everything was charged at fair market value.