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cary lichtenstein

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Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« on: October 16, 2007, 03:14:09 PM »
I heard a rumor the other day that the demand at Pebble is so great, that they are contemplating going to $700 per round and $1200 per nite for rooms.

Anybody have an info on this?
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2007, 03:18:02 PM »
Geez, pretty soon they are going to price themselves right out of the corporate complimentary market!  
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Rick Shefchik

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2007, 03:18:21 PM »
No, but I'm sure glad I played it when it was a bargain at $475.
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"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Joe Hancock

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2007, 04:04:35 PM »
Quote from: RJ_Daley on October 16, 2007, 03:18:02 PM
Geez, pretty soon they are going to price themselves right out of the corporate complimentary market!  

That's not possible, even the Detroit Lions haven't done it.....

Joe
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" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2007, 04:11:24 PM »
Quote from: Joe Hancock on October 16, 2007, 04:04:35 PM
Quote from: RJ_Daley on October 16, 2007, 03:18:02 PM
Geez, pretty soon they are going to price themselves right out of the corporate complimentary market!  

That's not possible, even the Detroit Lions haven't done it.....

Joe

Great point Joe.

I hope that one day I will play PB, however, I think at this point Id rather play Pacific 4 times before playing PB once.
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2007, 04:14:03 PM »
Not bad, only about 9 times inflation. :P
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"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2007, 04:15:38 PM »
In June 1986, I paid $110.

Can someone please calculate what $110 in 1986 dollars would be today, adjusted for inflation?

Just curious.
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"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
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JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2007, 04:17:50 PM »
Quote from: Dan Kelly™ on October 16, 2007, 04:15:38 PM
In June 1986, I paid $110.

Can someone please calculate what $110 in 1986 dollars would be today, adjusted for inflation?

Just curious.

$198.67

http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi
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I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2007, 04:18:04 PM »
Quote from: Rick Shefchik on October 16, 2007, 03:18:21 PM
No, but I'm sure glad I played it when it was a bargain at $475.

Me too...
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So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2007, 04:22:32 PM »
In '07 dollars, $208.68
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"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #10 on: October 16, 2007, 04:27:43 PM »

If Shadow Creek and Wynn's new course can charge $500.00 then Pebble should easily be able to charge $700.  I'm sure the tee sheets will still be full.

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Roger Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2007, 04:52:30 PM »
Quote from: Brad Tufts on October 16, 2007, 04:18:04 PM
Quote from: Rick Shefchik on October 16, 2007, 03:18:21 PM
No, but I'm sure glad I played it when it was a bargain at $475.

Me too...

I hate you.

Traveling to Scotland or England or Ireland is becoming far less expensive than going to Monterray for golf...
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Cornell University '11 - Tedesco Country Club - Next Golf Vacation: Summer 2015 @ Nova Scotia & PEI (14 Rounds)

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #12 on: October 16, 2007, 06:06:26 PM »
On a side note, I'm curious what the over/under in years would be for how soon the courses at Bandon are $500 in peak season??

I'd put it at 5 years....
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2007, 06:44:20 PM »
Kalen:

I'll bet you everything you are worth that the green fee at Bandon stays under $500 as long as Mr. Keiser is alive.
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2007, 06:47:58 PM »
I'll just keep going to the UK and Ireland-no brainer.
They've built enough asshole traps lately to keep the good places cleared up-great access and reasonably priced,despite the dollar weakness
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2007, 06:50:50 PM »
A bit higher than what I have heard...

Some corporate folks have been told that the fees could be pushing $600 in '09 but they never really provide rates that far in advance.

As most state they could likely charge far more and maintain level of play which is almost beyond manageable at this time.

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Mark Chaplin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2007, 06:58:46 PM »
Is the price outrageous....yes
Would I pay $600 or more for a round....no
Is it sound business sense if the place is full.......of course it is.

The only thing they should have is a programme for disadvantaged local golfers to get on the course for a reasonable fee.
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Cave Nil Vino

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2007, 07:15:12 PM »
Quote from: Tom_Doak on October 16, 2007, 06:44:20 PM
Kalen:

I'll bet you everything you are worth that the green fee at Bandon stays under $500 as long as Mr. Keiser is alive.

Tom,

I take it you'll be going for the over on the 5 years time slot.   ;D

I should have included the smiley on the $500 because I was shooting for something that seemed outrageously high.  Unfortunately, there are many who already think the $250 already qualifies as such.

In all seriousness though, I honestly hope prices do stay put for awhile.  I've been there twice now, and really love the place and would love to return again and again.  I just hope that it doesn't turn into a once-in-a-lifetime kind of gig that Pebble has turned into IMO.
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Cliff Hamm

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Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2007, 07:29:25 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on October 16, 2007, 07:15:12 PM


I should have included the smiley on the $500 because I was shooting for something that seemed outrageously high.  Unfortunately, there are many who already think the $250 already qualifies as such.



Why is that unfortunate?  To me $250 is an outrage for a round of golf, no matter what the quality of the course.
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jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2007, 07:48:17 PM »
Cliff,
 with that mindset you'd eliminate a lot of potential courses ever being built located on expensive real estate.
Should houses be capped at $200,000? Is it an outrage that a bottle of wine might sell for $250 (or way more)

Who's gonna build a course on the ocean and charge $50
(or whatever you deem reasonable)

It amazes me people will spend $250 on dinner, a hotel room,or drinks,or at a "dance" esatablishment (not that that's a bad thing), but begrudge an owner trying to recoup his investment .
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2007, 08:02:14 PM »
How many rounds do they get?

40,000 rounds = $24,000,000 @ $600.
Would that include the cart?

What is their tax burden?
Any debt?
What could their maintenance budget be?
$2.5MM
Operations
$2.0M

I'll assume the F&B is profitable as is the merchandise...

Do they make $20MM a year?

Seems like it would be worth $200MM as a cash business.
I'll guess at least double that....
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Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2007, 08:06:14 PM »
Jeff...I do not begrudge an owner trying to recoup his investment.  I suspect that at Pebble Beach the owners more than recoup their investment...This is merely my opinion.  Enjoying fine wine, I also believe that top tier Cabernet and first growth Bordeaux are also outrageously priced... I believe that greens fees of $250 and more are an outrage.  It may not be to others, just as initiation fees of 250k and more may not be outrageous to others.  To me they are.  Just my humble opinion.
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Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2007, 08:34:32 PM »
Cliff,

Thanks for pointing that out.  "Unfortunately" was the wrong word.  The meaning I meant to convey was if you inserted "However" in its place.

On a personal note though, Do I think $250 is outrageous? No. Pretty steep?  Yes

And while I've only played Pac Dunes at full freight, it was worth every penny to me.  
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 08:34:54 PM by Kalen Braley »
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Tim Leahy

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Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2007, 08:35:44 PM »
Quote from: Kalen Braley on October 16, 2007, 06:06:26 PM
On a side note, I'm curious what the over/under in years would be for how soon the courses at Bandon are $500 in peak season??

I'd put it at 5 years....

there is also less demand at Bandon because it is walking only, the walking only policy probably eliminates 75% of the golf tourist trade.
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I love golf, the fightin irish, and beautiful women depending on the season and availability.

jeffwarne

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Re:Pebble Beach: Raising rates????
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2007, 08:41:29 PM »
As Mike points out,
it's all about what you pay.
I know the previous owners paid $1 billion (for what I assume was much more than one property)
But again, it's all in what you paid for the property, and again as Mike points out, what it costs to operate.

If everyone "knows" you can make a fortune owning Pebble Beach and "gouging" tourists, doesn't the price eventually paid to purchase it get bid up to where you have to charge "outrageous" prices to turn a profit?

What should Sebonack charge for initiation having paid $45 million for the property before building cottages, golf, clubhouse?
Seems like it'd be hard to charge less than $250,000 unless you wanted it to be really crowded in peak times.



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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey
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