Golf Week Best New Courses-let the fur fly

[Tom Huckaby]

Joe:  

You do make a good point - the summer rates may well be within the "yearly splurge" range of a lot of golfers... and considering what you get, it is always worth it....

I just can't see many golfers wanting to pay those rates on an annual basis.  Maybe it's just me... once every five years, maybe.  Every year?  My wife divorces me.

TH

[Jerry Kluger]

I would really like to see how Brad's personal ratings of the courses he's seen compares with this list.  For that matter, I would like to see it for Ron Whitten versus GD.  Which list would have more credibility, the individual or the group?

[Kalen Braley]

Dan,

I would be inclinded to agree as well.  When you consider peak summer fees, playing 36 holes, travel, food, and lodging, affordable becomes a very very relative term.

I would suspect just one day alone would be more than a weeks pay for the average american joe....

Most golfers aren't "Average American Joes".  And as a yearly splurge I'd say Bandon is affordable and accessible even for those of us that are.

Joe,

I'm sure its not easy to keep perspective when you spend all your time in Bandon. But if we are going to define Average golfer, then your CCFAD and private club players are the exception not the rule.

Go to your average muni course in Average Joe City in nowhere America and those guys are not Bandon kind of guys.  They are all mostly joe six packs who want to drink at least that much on the course, have a few laughs, and chase the ball around the course.

[Joe Bentham]

Dan,

I would be inclinded to agree as well.  When you consider peak summer fees, playing 36 holes, travel, food, and lodging, affordable becomes a very very relative term.

I would suspect just one day alone would be more than a weeks pay for the average american joe....

Most golfers aren't "Average American Joes".  And as a yearly splurge I'd say Bandon is affordable and accessible even for those of us that are.

Joe,

I'm sure its not easy to keep perspective when you spend all your time in Bandon. But if we are going to define Average golfer, then your CCFAD and private club players are the exception not the rule.

Go to your average muni course in Average Joe City in nowhere America and those guys are not Bandon kind of guys.  They are all mostly joe six packs who want to drink at least that much on the course, have a few laughs, and chase the ball around the course.

And if that is their definition of golf (which they are entitled to) they probably don't aspire to come to Bandon in the first place.

[George Pazin]

I'm assuming by its absence that Old Sandwich opened before 2005? I thought it opened at the same time as BGC.

Wonder what Cabot Links will debut at....

P.S. Nice last post, Joe B.

[Kalen Braley]

Exactly Joe, we are in agreeance...

Hence the average Bandon golfer is not the average golfer.  

As a side note, I highly doubt the local county airport is proposing to make all those improvements to accomadate "average joes" coming to play at Bandon.

[Jim Franklin]

I would really like to see how Brad's personal ratings of the courses he's seen compares with this list.  For that matter, I would like to see it for Ron Whitten versus GD.  Which list would have more credibility, the individual or the group?

Whitten does not rate any courses for GD. He is just the architecture editor I believe.

[Jordan Wall]

I don't know Craig, Here's average High School kid, who seems to be able to get on.

Chambers Bay placement does shoot down Craig's statements . It does and will matter to the golfing public in PNW.

Adam,

I have played the course free of charge before, yet I have also happily made a tee time and paid the full price to play there (MY money too!) as well.  The way I see it, I would rather spend $150 to really enjoy a round of golf, then spend $50 and play some piece of crap that only justifies the cost by fast greens and perfect fairways.

Plus, the way the people at that course treat me, I was more then happy to pay the full price, and would do so again.  Happily.

Adam..no offense to Jordan, but he is "connected", and that counts for a lot when trying to gain access to some of these courses.

Craig,

I dont know what you are getting at here.
I'm a 17 year old high school kid.  I dont make a ton of money, I'm not a member at any course, and frankly I'm an average teenager.

I have two parents, one who is disabled and I take care of, and so to be honest I dont even play that much golf anymore (4 rounds since the end of summer).  

So how am I well connected?
I'd say that I've earned my right to play Chambers.  I have made the hour and a half drive many times to caddy to be able to play the course.  I worked hard for that.  It's not something that was given to me.

I might call myself blessed, to be able to play where I have.
But if I am well connected, then I dont know what to call the others on this site who have played PV, NGLA, ANGC, etc.

I'm thankful for where I have played.  I consider it a blessing.  But I just think your statement was a bit rash is all, and not really needed.  Thats all.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Jerry - Spring Creek???  I just wrote an article/did a review about this pleasant little Charlottesville daily fee course but to put in the same light as the list above is laughable.  The Federal Club, Mattaponi Spings, even Pendleton are better than Spring Creek...if you're talking about new courses in the state of Virginia!!  JC

[Kirk Gill]

And if that is their definition of golf (which they are entitled to) they probably don't aspire to come to Bandon in the first place.

On this I totally disagree. It may, in fact, be one of their highest aspirations. The experience might just edify them, and elevate them, as peak experiences of any kind can do. Those who package these experiences know this, and price their services accordingly, bottom line. Please read tagline below.

[Joe Bentham]

Exactly Joe, we are in agreeance...

Hence the average Bandon golfer is not the average golfer.  

As a side note, I highly doubt the local county airport is proposing to make all those improvements to accomadate "average joes" coming to play at Bandon.

Your wrong, we aren't agreeing about anything.  The average golfer isn't the jeans wearing, cart driving, beer drinking ignoramus that you claim he is.  

[Garland Bayley]

Garland:

Yes, my fee is considerably higher than Dan Hixson's -- perhaps five times higher, in fact.  But we might have built Pacific Dunes for less than he built Bandon Crossings.  Plus, we did our part to help teach Tony Russell how to build cool features so he could go help Dan.

Still, at the end of the day, the green fees for Pacific Dunes and Bandon Crossings aren't determined by construction costs or design fees, they're determined by supply and demand.  Bandon Crossings is targeted at a lower-priced market, but I'm pretty sure that Bandon Crossings would charge $150 if they could stay full at that price.

I understand this to mean that the courses at Bandon Resort could all make a go of it by charging the same as Bandon Crossings does now. After all, the land was cheap and their construction was relatively straightforward.

It is this capitalism crap that gets in the way of it happening.  

[Kalen Braley]

Exactly Joe, we are in agreeance...

Hence the average Bandon golfer is not the average golfer.  

As a side note, I highly doubt the local county airport is proposing to make all those improvements to accomadate "average joes" coming to play at Bandon.

Your wrong, we aren't agreeing about anything.  The average golfer isn't the jeans wearing, cart driving, beer drinking ignoramus that you claim he is.  

Once again Joe,  You've been in Bandon far too long....

[Jerry Kluger]

JC: It was rated #25 on the GW list - ahead of Pradera, Stone Eagle, Dismal River and so on.  I hadn't heard of it - sorry if I missed your review.  

[Craig Sweet]

Jordan, like I said "no offense", but you have met people thru this site that has allowed you access to places you might not otherwise be able to play at this point in your life....whether you paid or not....there are many, many golfers that do not have that opportunity...

[David_Madison]

Where's Mountaintop? I played both Mountaintop and Bright's Creek back to back, and believe the former is superior to Bright's Creek in practically every respect. Opened around the same time, and a Fazio as well (with the same PR machinery in place.) My understanding is that among the locals who know both Wade Hampton and Mountaintop, there's discussion/debate about which is better. If Mountaintop is getting that type of positive talk and put in that kind of company, how can it not be in the top 50 new courses?

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan, like I said "no offense", but you have met people thru this site that has allowed you access to places you might not otherwise be able to play at this point in your life....whether you paid or not....there are many, many golfers that do not have that opportunity...

Craig,

ANY golfer has the ability to come and pay to play Chambers Bay.

As far as the courses I have played, like I said I feel blessed.  I am more then thankful for the oppurtunities people have given me.  
I still dont understand why playing a couple courses would qualify me as 'connected' though.

[Craig Sweet]

I don't think you can stereotype an "average golfer" because the average golfer is such a mixture....I think there's a great many golfers out there that can more than afford a few days at Bandon, but they are perfectly happy to play their home course....be it private or public...and they are content because they have never played a truly great course.

[Kalen Braley]

I don't think you can stereotype an "average golfer" because the average golfer is such a mixture....I think there's a great many golfers out there that can more than afford a few days at Bandon, but they are perfectly happy to play their home course....be it private or public...and they are content because they have never played a truly great course.

This may be so Craig


But there are many many more who can't afford a place like this who can, so in the end, the average guy can't afford it.

I would agree on your last part, your average joe is perfectly content on his rotation of 2-3 courses and doesn't even bother to look what else is out there.

[Craig Sweet]

Jordan...Chambers Bay is accessible to anyone with the $150 fee....

I could stand at the local muni or the local country club and try and sell trips to Bandon and Chambers Bay all day long and won't find 5 people willing to drive/fly from Montana to play those courses...why? Because they cost too much!  And no matter what the ranking is, the course costs too much. That is the perception....how can Bandon really be worth that much money and how can I possibly justify going there??

However....I bet if I can get one golfer to make that trip they won't want the trip to end, and they will be ready to try another "great course".

[Craig Sweet]

By the way Jordan...you are "connected"...anytime you want a game in Montana or northern Idaho I'll meet you and take care of you.


Of course you're going to have to get us on Rock Creek..

[Joe Bentham]

Exactly Joe, we are in agreeance...

Hence the average Bandon golfer is not the average golfer.  

As a side note, I highly doubt the local county airport is proposing to make all those improvements to accomadate "average joes" coming to play at Bandon.

Your wrong, we aren't agreeing about anything.  The average golfer isn't the jeans wearing, cart driving, beer drinking ignoramus that you claim he is.  

Once again Joe,  You've been in Bandon far too long....

Kalen--
If your argument is that people can't afford to pay 200 dollars everyday for golf, I agree with you.  But if you argument is that the average weekend player and his buddies can't put the scratch together for a trip to Bandon every couple of years if they so desired, then I have to disagree with you, loudly.  We see those groups everyday, including high season.
I'm not sure who you think plays out here, but it isn't the upper crust of society exclusively.  Its everyday people who have everyday lives to go back to for the most part.

[Kalen Braley]

Man this "connected" thing sounds like a good gig.

Is this like a spin off of that "Made" show on MTV?  I think Jordan is about the right age for that.  

He could blow off all those jocks and prep boys and tell em, "you guys may be the star football and basketballers, but I can play golf on all the best private courses in the PacNorthWest...and the chicks dig that"      

[Jordan Wall]

Jordan...Chambers Bay is accessible to anyone with the $150 fee....

Its still accessible to anyone though.  Anyone willing to pay the fee can play it.  I paid it, and I guarantee I make less than 99.99% of the golfing public.

I could stand at the local muni or the local country club and try and sell trips to Bandon and Chambers Bay all day long and won't find 5 people willing to drive/fly from Montana to play those courses...why? Because they cost too much!  And no matter what the ranking is, the course costs too much. That is the perception....how can Bandon really be worth that much money and how can I possibly justify going there??

That is precisely why there should be great courses in every area.  Chambers Bay is our great course.  Face it, to see most of the great courses around the country, even public, its going to be expensive.  Its just an expense you have to make.

However....I bet if I can get one golfer to make that trip they won't want the trip to end, and they will be ready to try another "great course".

Theres nothing wrong with that.

[Jordan Wall]

He could blow off all those jocks and prep boys and tell em, "you guys may be the star football and basketballers, but I can play golf on all the best private courses in the PacNorthWest...and the chicks dig that"      

Or, you could be like me, and be the jock and the one who gets to play the private clubs.

And the chicks ALL dig me.