Golf Week Best New Courses-let the fur fly

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

I can dig where you are coming from...but I would sure love to see a exit poll as they leave that asks what the average yearly household income of these guys is.

There are how many millions of golfers in the U.S?  If only 100,000 of those came to the Bandon Resort each year, you can easily find enough that aren't average joes to fill up those time sheets.

I'll take a job at Bandon to collect these stats, but I'm not cheap..    

[Craig Sweet]

The chics dig Jordan?

Oh yeah...the guy that wears the untucked pink shirt, white socks and black shoes??

[Kalen Braley]

He could blow off all those jocks and prep boys and tell em, "you guys may be the star football and basketballers, but I can play golf on all the best private courses in the PacNorthWest...and the chicks dig that"      

Or, you could be like me, and be the jock and the one who gets to play the private clubs.

And the chicks ALL dig me.

 

Ahhh....

See its good to be Jordan after all, a jock who get all the chicks and access that he wants.  You da man!!  

[Joe Bentham]

Joe,

I can dig where you are coming from...but I would sure love to see a exit poll as they leave that asks what the average yearly household income of these guys is.

There are how many millions of golfers in the U.S?  If only 100,000 of those came to the Bandon Resort each year, you can easily find enough that aren't average joes to fill up those time sheets.

I'll take a job at Bandon to collect these stats, but I'm not cheap..    

Fill up what time sheets?

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

A bit more too chew on:

The average male over 25 years old makes $33k per year.  Go ask that average guy if he thinks spending $250 on a round of golf is affordable.

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

I can dig where you are coming from...but I would sure love to see a exit poll as they leave that asks what the average yearly household income of these guys is.

There are how many millions of golfers in the U.S?  If only 100,000 of those came to the Bandon Resort each year, you can easily find enough that aren't average joes to fill up those time sheets.

I'll take a job at Bandon to collect these stats, but I'm not cheap..    

Fill up what time sheets?

Perhaps I should have said Tee Sheets, or Time slots on the tee sheets...thats what I meant.  

[Joe Bentham]

Joe,

A bit more too chew on:

The average male over 25 years old makes $33k per year.  Go ask that average guy if he thinks spending $250 on a round of golf is affordable.

He also dosen't play golf.  

[Joe Bentham]

Joe,

I can dig where you are coming from...but I would sure love to see a exit poll as they leave that asks what the average yearly household income of these guys is.

There are how many millions of golfers in the U.S?  If only 100,000 of those came to the Bandon Resort each year, you can easily find enough that aren't average joes to fill up those time sheets.

I'll take a job at Bandon to collect these stats, but I'm not cheap..    

Fill up what time sheets?

Perhaps I should have said Tee Sheets, or Time slots on the tee sheets...thats what I meant.  

I promise you that our tee sheets aren't filled with millionaires.  I wish they where.  Your image of Bandon is an unrealistic one.

[Garland Bayley]

...
I still dont understand why playing a couple courses would qualify me as 'connected' though.

Jordan,

You have played Tumble Creek with Tom Doak. You can't get anymore connected than that.  

[Kalen Braley]

Joe,

Part of the problem here is you are seeing this thing as black and white.  This isn't about millionaries on one side of the line and Burger King drive thru employees on the other.

If I was a betting man, I'd guess your average clientel has yearly income in the $75k to $100k per year bracket.  This is far far more than the average median household in the US, much less the median wage of 1 person.  These guys aren't millionares, they are just better off than most.

With an estimated 26 millions golfers in the US, are you going to claim that the average golfer makes this kind of money?

[Garland Bayley]

Joe,

A bit more too chew on:

The average male over 25 years old makes $33k per year.  Go ask that average guy if he thinks spending $250 on a round of golf is affordable.

He also dosen't play golf.  

Why in the world would you say he doesn't play golf? Because he doesn't play golf in Bandon?

Of course huge numbers of people in that range of income play golf. It may very well be that one of the people in the average income backet gave us Tiger Woods.

I don't know what Tiger's dad made, but it is my impression that it was very average.

[Joe Bentham]

Joe,

Part of the problem here is you are seeing this thing as black and white.  This isn't about millionaries on one side of the line and Burger King drive thru employees on the other.

If I was a betting man, I'd guess your average clientel has yearly income in the $75k to $100k per year bracket.  This is far far more than the average median household in the US, much less the median wage of 1 person.  These guys aren't millionares, they are just better off than most.

With an estimated 26 millions golfers in the US, are you going to claim that the average golfer makes this kind of money?

The biggest problem is that you keep throwing stats at me about the average US citizen but you keep failing to mention that they aren't golfers.  Less then 10% of the population is golfing.  Meaning the stats about their income are useless.
The average golfing households income is higher then the average income.  Please go google that.

[Kalen Braley]

Here is a link to the National Golf foundation. http://www.ngf.org/cgi/whofaqa.asp?

Look at this piece of data.

Avid golfers (25+ rounds annually) make up the smallest player segment (23 percent), but accounted for 63 percent of all golf-related spending in 2002

You have less than 1/4th of golfers who spend nearly 2/3rd of the money on golf related stuff.

Is that 23% of golfers the average golfer??

[Joe Bentham]

Here is a link to the National Golf foundation. http://www.ngf.org/cgi/whofaqa.asp?

Look at this piece of data.

Avid golfers (25+ rounds annually) make up the smallest player segment (23 percent), but accounted for 63 percent of all golf-related spending in 2002

You have less than 1/4th of golfers who spend nearly 2/3rd of the money on golf related stuff.

Is that 23% of golfers the average golfer??

If you aren't playing twice a month are you really a golfer?  Answer that your self.  That is also one of the stupidest stats I've ever heard.  The people who play golf spend more money on it then the people who don't.  Great point Kalen

[Kalen Braley]

Here is a link to the National Golf foundation. http://www.ngf.org/cgi/whofaqa.asp?

Look at this piece of data.

Avid golfers (25+ rounds annually) make up the smallest player segment (23 percent), but accounted for 63 percent of all golf-related spending in 2002

You have less than 1/4th of golfers who spend nearly 2/3rd of the money on golf related stuff.

Is that 23% of golfers the average golfer??

If you aren't playing twice a month are you really a golfer?  Answer that your self.  That is also one of the stupidest stats I've ever heard.  The people who play golf spend more money on it then the people who don't.  Great point Kalen

Now we are finally getting somewhere in this conversation and it appears your biases/pre-conceived notions are finally coming out.  Remember this is all of golf related spending, not just green fees.

So someone who plays less than twice a month is not a golfer in your book?  Do you have any other exclusionary criteria you would like to insert at this point?

If you can't break 100 on a semi-consitent basis are you not a real golfer?
If you can't afford the latest clubs/balls/gear are you not a golfer?
If you use your grandpas set from 30 years ago and dig balls out of the pond to play, are you not a golfer?

I would agree this conversation can't continue until we know what Joe Benthams idea of what a real golfer is.....

[Mike Hendren]

This has to be an all-time top ten threadjack.

[Kalen Braley]

Guilty as charged...sorry about that Daryl.  

I will cease and desist.

[Garland Bayley]

Hey the fur was flying. What is a thread jack about that?

[Tony Petersen]

I'm still waiting to hear from Joe about how one plays Bandon for free???

I understand that if your a local, you get a discounted rate. And I have played comped courtesy of working in the golf biz.

That being said, what's the policy on Bandon locals and playing the Resort? Is there a limit of rounds that can be played per year? Is it a seasonal thing whereas locals can play for free during the winter months? Seriously, I would love to know as I've had some serious considerations on buying a small bungalow in Bandon for vacations, rentals, etc.

That being said, the average joe is a great guy who at the end of the day isn't worshipping at the alter of PV, Merion, SH and the like. That's all that I have to say about that

[Jordan Wall]

I'm still waiting to hear from Joe about how one plays Bandon for free???

Not even Arnold palmer plays Bandon for free.

[John Kirk]

Back on topic:

The top ten is very solid.  I expected to see Pronghorn - Fazio even more highly rated.  I have only seen photos and heard reports, but it looks to be a premier Fazio course.

Between the high ranking here and Golf Digest's Best for 2006, I want to see The Concession.  Tiger B. says it's great.

Back off topic:

I'm sure "Average Joe" Bentham plays the Bandon courses on Monday, when caddies get to play.

Back on topic:

Once again Brad, sorry for shooting my mouth off, in the most homerific way.  It happens.

By the way, was The Madison Club eligible for ranking this year?  I've toured it.  It's amazing, and sure to have a polarizing effect on golf architecture fans.

[Steve Kline]

Craig:

I don't really understand where you're coming from.  Of course, everybody would like to see more great courses available for public play ... but it's rare for those projects to be able to make it financially.  

Bandon works because it's built on sand, because the land was dirt cheap for oceanfront property, and because they have a 12-month golf season.  None of that is true for anyplace in Montana.  If you don't have a bunch of members willing to pay $$$ to finance the construction costs, instead of paying for them at $60 a pop, those projects just don't happen, period.

So, why complain about the projects that DO happen?  It's not like they are holding back the ones that don't.

Could some of those courses be semi-private? Could some of those courses do something like Muirfield where they are open to the public one or two days a week? I'm not saying anyone should do anything they don't want (it is their course) but I think it's a shame that so few of the great courses in this country are accessible to people while most of the great courses around the world. I've played more courses in the top 100 in the world than the top 100 in the US.

[Dan Moore]

Erin Hills #26.  WoW, 25 new courses better than Erin Hills.  

It must be a great time for new courses or something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

[Joe Bentham]

I'm sure "Average Joe" Bentham plays the Bandon courses on Monday, when caddies get to play.

John
Our privileges are much better then that.  If you live in Bandon and want to play golf at the resort you more then likely already work there, was my point about locals playing for free.

Kalen

90% of golfers don't break 100.  Having the newest stuff doesn't make you a golfer.  Either you are you aren't.  My point is someone who plays less then 25 times a year is probably not in the market for a golf vacation in the first place.  As for the people who are in the market for a golf vacation I'd argue Bandon is a great bang for their buck.  And so would they.  Just ask the people on here who've really been.

ALL
Getting the thread back on topic.  I've played 4 courses on the list: 1.BT, 2.CB, 28. Stone Eagle and 32. Classic Club.  The gap between Classic club and Stone Eagle was bigger for me then the the gap between Stone Eagle and CB & BT.  In fact Chambers Bay reminded me of Stone Eagle when I played it.

[Dan Kelly]

My point is someone who plays less then 25 times a year is probably not in the market for a golf vacation in the first place.

I'm sorry to say so, but you're just wrong about that.

I'm sure a bunch of people on this board play fewer than 25 times a year (because of time and/or monetary constraints) -- and ALL of them are in the market for a golf vacation that they can afford.

I would guess that quite a few members of this board who have never been to Bandon have failed to visit there in part because of the expense.

Do you doubt that?

(Let me be clear about something. Mike Keiser can charge whatever he likes, and he'll take no criticism from me. I merely observed that it was "sad" that supply and demand overwhelm everything else.)