News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Mark Bourgeois

Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« on: October 15, 2007, 05:23:27 PM »
I hesitate given the lack of interest in the front nine pics, but since a few did ask...

10


11



12




13



14: one of my favorite inland holes (at least after 2 plays).  Surely Mac took inspiration from this hole when he designed RMW 10!




Green from rear:


15




16






17




18: Add "Pandy" (short for "Pandemonium") to the list of all-world bunkers; unfortunately it's NLE



Mark

Brent Hutto

Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2007, 05:54:05 PM »
I love the tee shot on the twelfth hole. OK, actually I love the tee shots at Ganton in general. But still, for my game the combination of the tree(s) guarding the inside line and the positioning of that deep bunker is aces! My biggest regret of the entire trip is not getting to play that hole.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2007, 06:56:59 PM »
The old 12th must have been amazing: the tee was off to the left of the current one and played as a relatively-straight hole -- except for the wall of trees one had to play over!

This hole was changed to its current dogleg to toughen up the course in anticipation of its hosting the 1949 Ryder Cup.

The tree appearing in the pic second from the left, the lone vestige of that wall, is artificially supported, in deference to the vital role it plays today: the golfer may blow his tee ball right over it, but if so is likely to run through the dogleg into the gorse.

So the risk-reward is very precariously balanced and the golfer who chooses risk better know what he's doing.  I sure didn't, but I'm sure all the single-digit handicaps who apparently populate this board would.

Without the tree(s), the hole might still offer a similar risk-reward, as a stream would define the corner of the dogleg, although it might play too short for many, and without the vertical hazard the landing zone might prove not only easier but less thrilling to hit and hold.

Mark

Mike Sweeney

Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2007, 07:52:58 PM »
I hesitate given the lack of interest in the front nine pics, but since a few did ask...



Thanks, no lack of interest in Ganton from me.

Mark_F

Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2007, 09:16:53 PM »
Mark,

I have only played Ganton once, some eleven years ago, and thought it a particularly lovely course that was just appealing to me.

Your two threads have highlighted a lot of things I missed, and I look forward to a return visit in the next year or so, and I have no doubt my enjoyment will be much greater because of your efforts.

Thanks.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2007, 10:45:53 PM »
I really am enamored with the 14th and am keen to see if others picked up on the connection to Royal Melbourne (West) 10.

The view off the tee is puzzling and even horrific: the pic above is taken from about 10 paces right of the tee.  From the tee proper, all the golfer sees is gorse in front, gorse all down the left, trees over to the right, and directly ahead the gaping bunker pictured, with a flag sticking up behind.  It looks like a redoubt, and we golfers invited to a game of "capture the flag," albeit one designed by the older brother who constantly teased you, who never crafted games you actually could win!

The prevailing wind is from the right, so if you wish to drive the green in most circumstances you will have to challenge not just the bunker, which is score-annihilating enough, but the gorse down the left -- unless you are capable of hitting a hook that rides a hook wind...but doesn't miss its stop!  The alternative I suppose is to try for a straight ball the wind pushes back, but miscalculations are deadly: odds are you will find that obvious tree down the right.

That's not all: if you attempt the hook and miss long, and run through the green from the right, you will find that nasty bunker pictured back left.  If you are capable, as apparently was Trip Kuehne in the 2003 Walker Cup, then good luck to you; this hole must be like a boring pitch and putt to the rest of us!

Depending on which tee you choose, the bunker is 220-240 to carry.

But that's only half the challenge: like so many others here, this green is a fallaway.  So: carry the bunker, then stop it on a firm green running away from you.

I guess the weakness of the hole is that there's not a huge penalty in going a little long, although you can find gorse back there.

If you choose not to challenge the bunker off the tee, the play is an iron out to the right.  But then you bring trees over there into play -- in particular that oak or gumdrop-looking tree clearly depicted -- especially considering A, the firmness of the turf, and B, the cant of the fairway to the right.

There's also hay over there, and as I recall, possibly a stream, although on holes of this sort I often find my mind's eye "helpfully" populates the margins with all manner of beasties and sea monsters.

Mitigating all this is that it is just an iron shot after all, and ingeniously the very same wind that may be said to challenge the risk-taking golfer helps the golfer who chooses this route.  It helps keep him away from the trees, although it does bring more into play the fairway bunker.  But there again the golfer must properly decide where to lay up ("Far Enough To" see the green but "Not So Far As" the bunker, trees, crap.)

Even if you execute the lay-up shot off the tee, your troubles are not over, for there's that back-left bunker now directly on your line, and let's not forget the fall-away green.

By now, if you've played RMW 10, this hole and its play sound similar, don't they?  I know, they don't really look alike: Ganton's plays over relatively flat ground whereas RMW's plays across a valley, RMW's bunker is a yawning chasm versus Ganton's "silent killer" and there's quite the sting in RMW's tail (don't go long).

But here's the rub: in October 1912 MacKenzie was called in to recommend further changes.  Among the holes he suggested changing was 14, where he recommended adding the hummocks (pictured above) to the fairway bunker so that it became visible from the tee.

Of course, there's more than a decades' worth of time from when he worked on Ganton to his design of RMW 10.  The thoughts he must have thought...

I could probably go on like this regarding the 3rd hole, another short 4, as well. Man, just to think there are two great driveable 4s on this one course, dating nearly 100 years old...it gets ya thinkin!

Mark

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2007, 02:31:59 AM »
Mark interestingly Ganton (and Woodhall Spa) induced such respect in my that I became ultra conservative in my chosen strategy and for the most part it worked. I never gave it a though to try and drive the green on 14.  Instead playing for a lay-up I found that a well struck 7w took me over the crest of the fairway and left an awkward stance with ball below my feet.  Hitting 4i in the afternoon I had a much better stance albeit further out.

I wish I had a side on view to show the 15th green, concertina ripples – never seen anything like that before. Could only have been done on such a free draining site.


Thanks for posting, one of the special ones.
2025 Craws Nest Tassie, Carnoustie.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2007, 02:46:00 AM »
I don't remember if it was the 15th or the 12th -- I do believe it was the 15th -- that was the site of the town's bowling green.  What we see today can't be the same as that, though...


Ed Tilley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2007, 05:50:28 AM »
I hesitate given the lack of interest in the front nine pics, but since a few did ask...

Thanks Mark,

Brightened up a dreary morning here in Blighty.

Ed

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Ganton, Second Nine (Pics)
« Reply #9 on: October 16, 2007, 07:37:33 AM »
Simply a great course.  If there's a better inland course in Britain I haven't played it.  14 is an all World hole.  It just gets in your mind and confusion sows doubt.  For me it's a 6 iron lay up followed by a little wedge but I can't play it that way.  I just can't tell myself to hit the tee shot in the right place.  Last time I was there I hit 3 wood over the bunker and left a downhill chip and putt for birdie.  That's the first time I've even made par in something like a dozen plays but this should be such a simple hole.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 07:42:43 AM by Mark Pearce »
In July I will be riding two stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity, including Mont Ventoux for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.