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Ryan Farrow

Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« on: October 14, 2007, 09:08:04 PM »
Just some pictures from todays trip to Globe and the best golf course in Arizona minus the humorous conditions.

Some Beauty Shots:

#16 Approach


#12


#14 The Redan that is 30-40 yards short of perfect.


#17 Beautiful short? hole.



Double Hazard, way to pile it on Mr. Doak





3 1/2 years in AZ and I finally found one.





Conditions are all over the place but the fairways were in great shape, greens were good-very bad, tee-boxes were very good-MIA.

Still shouldn't stop anyone from taking the tip out to Globe. It's still the best we got in AZ.

Roger Tufts

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2007, 09:29:04 PM »
Great pictures... I know when I was out there I had my eye out for snakes as well haha. Still haven't seen one.

I would LOVE to get back out to Apache again... I played it before I really knew what I was talking about GCA-wise, and it was a very hard/cold day... delayed start due due to a morning frost (played it near new-years).

Sad to see the conditions all over the map... maybe they will shape up... someday...
Cornell University '11 - Tedesco Country Club - Next Golf Vacation: Summer 2015 @ Nova Scotia & PEI (14 Rounds)

John_Cullum

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2007, 10:43:10 PM »
How long is the drive from Phoenix Airport
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2007, 10:49:05 PM »
It's about 90 miles east of PHX so figure at least 90 minutes.


www.golfapache.com

I'd like to know when the pictures on the website were taken.


"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

John_Cullum

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2007, 10:52:11 PM »
The website is not very appealing
"We finally beat Medicare. "

Bill_McBride

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 10:54:06 PM »
When you walk Apache Stronghold, there are great paths from the front of the tees down to the fairways.  Otherwise you would have to follow the cart paths for a long hike.  I have to admit I was a bit worried about snakes while hiking down those paths!  :o

Evan_Green

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 10:57:26 PM »
Ryan

Very nice pictures golf the golf course, but I have to ask... why on earth did you get so close to that Rattler??? I'd have been running away from that thing faster than a downhill putt at Oakmont!

Just curious, how big was the snake? from the picture he doesnt look that big and if thats true doesnt that mean he's young... and dont the young venomous snakes inject more venom than adults into you because they cant control their venom output yet and just let you have all of it?

You are brave indeed to get as close to that thing as you did to take those pictures




Ryan Farrow

Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2007, 10:59:15 PM »
Evan, 12X zoom does wonders, I'm sure I was still in striking distance but he was at least 3' long but not really pissed off. Kind of cute actually.

Roger Tufts

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2007, 11:31:17 PM »
Ryan

Very nice pictures golf the golf course, but I have to ask... why on earth did you get so close to that Rattler??? I'd have been running away from that thing faster than a downhill putt at Oakmont!

Just curious, how big was the snake? from the picture he doesnt look that big and if thats true doesnt that mean he's young... and dont the young venomous snakes inject more venom than adults into you because they cant control their venom output yet and just let you have all of it?

You are brave indeed to get as close to that thing as you did to take those pictures

By the way he was photographed, he didn't look pissed off in the least. I have a personal love for snakes. I think they are magnificent animals. I think that you saw one is awesome... In the probably two weeks total ive spent in Arizona i havent seen one, and that includes a desert tour where I went LOOKING for one for over two hours with a guide who knows where to find them.

Relax a little ;) they wont bite you if you dont mess with them haha

Again, great pictures! Looks like you had an awesome day
Cornell University '11 - Tedesco Country Club - Next Golf Vacation: Summer 2015 @ Nova Scotia & PEI (14 Rounds)

Matt_Cohn

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2007, 11:52:58 PM »
Those conditions are a travesty.

Ryan Farrow

Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2007, 01:38:28 AM »
Roger, your time will come. I guess if you spend enough time in the desert it is bound to pay off. As you might notice I took my pictures from behind the snake, I think Tom got some glamor shots.


Matt, do you really want to see some horrid conditions? They have some serious issues that stretch far beyond their ability to grow turf grass. I'd love to spend a few weeks up there fixing some things up. The course just need some TLC, they are re-sodding tees with Bermuda grass and have huge dips and bumps in them as a result of the in-house work, then you see another tee with fresh bent grass sod then a tee with no grass at all then you have number 18 that is made up of 90% crab grass, I just don't get it.

Tom Yost

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2007, 09:46:32 AM »
A most enjoyable day visiting Apache Stronghold for the first time.  Nice to meet up with Michael Lacey and the youngster Ryan.  My ex-door neighbor Bruce Hrivnak completed the foursome.  TERRIFIC weather, 75 or so and a nice breeze that picked up a bit for the back nine.

As an added bonus, the wife and I had gone to see a movie last weekend and during pre-show advertising, there it was:  "Bring your movie ticket stub for half off greens fees at Apache Stronghold."  Sweet.  The round ended up costing us less than $30 each!

The layout, as advertised, was a fine test of golf in a fantastic natural high desert setting. The conditions, well... it would seem some help is still needed.

Fairways are fine, I think the conversion to bermuda was a success.  It seems they are in the process of renovating the tees.  The bunkers, however, are quite neglected and the greens,  well... there were bare spots, which I've seen on stressed bent greens before, but really puzzling were the numerous holes, golf ball size or slightly larger, 1/2" to an inch deep, that we couldn't tell if they were created by unrepaired pitch marks, animals, insects or what ?  We all thought it odd that these holes weren't at least filled with sand.

The conditions by no means would keep me from going back or recommending this course to others.

A stop for an old school Mexican lunch at the El Rey in Globe set us right for the drive back to town.

I'm still finding my way with golf course photography, so my pics don't add to the excellent shots Ryan has already posted.

As for the snake, cuddley indeed, but it crawled into a bush by the time my camera was ready and I wasn't about to pull a Steve Irwin.  I did note that for the remainder of the round, everyone was a bit more cautious looking for balls out in the desert.  :o

As for drive time, just under 90 minutes from our meetup in east Mesa, you would probably add 20 minutes or so from the airport.

Looking forward to a return visit.

Tom
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 11:52:57 AM by Tom Yost »

George Pazin

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2007, 10:44:08 AM »
I'm still finding my way with golf course photography, so my pics don't add to the excellent shots Ryan has already posted.

Please share yours as well, I'm sure they'd add to the discussion.

I've seen a lot worse, condition-wise.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Garland Bayley

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2007, 11:17:05 AM »
Evan, 12X zoom does wonders, I'm sure I was still in striking distance but he was at least 3' long but not really pissed off. Kind of cute actually.

Ya, Right! And, I am sure by your estimation Jordan Wall is downright glamorous.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Doug Wright

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2007, 11:44:39 AM »
Interesting--the two times I've been there, most recently a couple years ago, the fairways were the big problem and the greens and tees were just fine; in fact the greens were excellent. Now things are reversed. I'd say there's room for optimism since I'd think it's easier to fix the green/tee problems than the fairways.

I'm not a snake fan (Diamondback or otherwise...  ;D). When do they disappear for the season (if they do) and when in the spring do they reappear?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2007, 11:46:36 AM by Doug Wright »
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Mike Lacey

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2007, 12:32:15 PM »
Tom

Thanks again for a fine day.  

Ryan

The pictures are great.  I especially like the one of the poor bastard in the bunker behind the trees.  Thank goodness for the uphill lie.  

My considerable experince with encountering snakes is that when conditions are right to have one out.....he usually has friends.  It is pretty rare to only come across one in terrain similar to AS.  My personal daily record (while working for the US Forest Service) was 7 in one day.  We could not get back in the truck soon enough that day.  

As reported by Ryan and Tom, conditions ranged from rediculous to sublime, although very playable for the most part.  There did not seem to be any rhyme or reason to the efforts they were undertaking.  I don't expect pristine conditions here and I think a bit of ruggedness in conditions adds to the overall experience at a wildlands golf course.  That said, the maintenance program appeared to be a bit of a ship without a rudder.  

It appeared as though they were capable of successfully maintaining bent grass putting surfaces and teeing grounds.  Both were maintained in a very wet state.  Despite this, the tees were being resodded (mostly with bermuda and some with bent).  The bermuda tees will either need to be overseeded or will play dormant for a considerable period of time through the cooler months, while bent would remain green and should be able to grow in to fill divots where dormant bermuda will not.

Ball marks on the greens were among the deepest I had ever witnessed.  I hit a 52 deg wedge into the 9th hole.  The ball plugged to where roughly 3/4 of it was below the green surface.  Proper repair of these ball marks was difficult to accomplish, at best.  

After considerable thought, I have concluded that the craters that Tom and Ryan referred to are the result of irrigation of unrepaired or poorly repaired ball marks.  The craters seemed more prevalent on holes where short approach shots are the norm.  I think irrigation is washing the soil away, primarily through a process called soil piping.  If this condition is not resolved, some greens may become unplayable.  

The fairway bermuda is quickly heading toward dormancy, which partially explains the brown hue in Ryan's photos.  My guess is that fairway and rough conditions are as good as they are going to get until spring.    


Rick Shefchik

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2007, 12:37:04 PM »
What the hell is going on here?



A hedge between a bunker and the green? I'm hoping it was a seriously off-target shot that got you here, but even so, that hedge has to go.
"Golf is 20 percent mechanics and technique. The other 80 percent is philosophy, humor, tragedy, romance, melodrama, companionship, camaraderie, cussedness and conversation." - Grantland Rice

Mike Lacey

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2007, 01:13:42 PM »
The shot was pulled a bit, but was not "seriously" off line.  The bunker and trees are adjacent to the fairway.  

I am not sure it did not help by preventing the shot from going further into the scrub and an unplayable condition.  

The bunker shows up left of the 88 yd marker on the hole diagram that you can access from Apache Stronghold's website (15th hole).    


John Kavanaugh

Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2007, 01:27:58 PM »
What the hell is going on here?



A hedge between a bunker and the green? I'm hoping it was a seriously off-target shot that got you here, but even so, that hedge has to go.

Why not do away with the bunker?

JC Jones

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2007, 01:30:53 PM »
I cant figure out what all the fuss is about.  I dont think the bunker makes the shot any more difficult than it already is.  Hitting through a hedge is hitting through a hedge regardless of the lie.

I dont think removing the bunker is the answer.  removing the hedge on the other hand ....
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Tom Yost

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2007, 01:33:43 PM »
The shot was pulled a bit, but was not "seriously" off line.  The bunker and trees are adjacent to the fairway.  

I am not sure it did not help by preventing the shot from going further into the scrub and an unplayable condition.  

The bunker shows up left of the 88 yd marker on the hole diagram that you can access from Apache Stronghold's website (15th hole).    



I just now realize that they have the hole diagrams online (you have to choose Scorecard from the menu then click the hole #)
 
I was wondering why I hadn't noticed you in that bunker, but I was having my own epic struggle on 15 (ending up with an 8  :P )



John Kavanaugh

Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2007, 01:34:36 PM »
Maybe if these double hazard bunkers were not included in the original design the course would play the same and cost less to maintain properly.  The money saved by removing bunkers that are not needed could be used to improve conditions.  Removing the hedge will only cost them more much needed funds.

JC Jones

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2007, 01:39:29 PM »
THe bunker isnt a double hazard bunker if you remove the hedge.  

Also, looking at the hole diagram on the website, the bunker seems to have more of a purpose than the hedge, mainly, penalizing the chump who cant hit is 7 iron straight when laying up to a par 5.

for the record, im often that chump.
I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Tom Yost

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2007, 10:07:12 AM »
A few of my pics from Sunday.

A view of the green that sits in a saddle above the fairway on the short par 4 Fourth:



The drivable par 4 Sixth from the tee:



The tee shot on the par 5 Eighth.



The tee shot on the long par 4 Thirteenth.  A good shot can carry the hill on the right but playing safe too far left will leave a blind shot to the green.


Jason Topp

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Re:Apache Stronghold (Pics) + Double Hazard + Snakes
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2007, 10:37:50 AM »
The tee shot on the long par 4 Thirteenth.  A good shot can carry the hill on the right but playing safe too far left will leave a blind shot to the green.



This is my favorite tee shot that I have encountered since my trip to Australia a couple of years ago.  What makes it so good for me is that the hole is long, and I need to hit it over the bunkers on the right and catch the downslope to have a reasonable shot into the green.  The shot looks way more difficult than it is.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 10:39:43 AM by Jason Topp »

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