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BVince

  • Karma: +0/-0
Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« on: October 14, 2007, 05:25:05 PM »
1.  If you could only play Spyglass Hill or the Links at Spanish Bay, which one would you chose?  Why?

2.  If you had to rank the public courses in the Monterey area, what would be your top 5?
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If profanity had an influence on the flight of the ball, the game of golf would be played far better than it is. - Horace Hutchinson

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2007, 06:01:59 PM »
Bryon,
1. Spyglass. Because it's got the first five and the rest is better than most afficionados give it credit for.
2. Do you mean other than the Company's courses? If so, The best value is Pacific Grove. Save your money and just play there. If not, It's PB, Spy, Spanish, PG, Del Monte, Expanding your Area?? Pasatiempo, Stevenson Ranch, San Juan Oaks, Arroyo Seco, Rancho Canada and even Ol' Monterey Pines (Navy course between fairgrounds and airpor runway.) has some really cool gca.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom Birkert

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2007, 06:12:17 PM »
Personally I'd play Spanish Bay. I didn't enjoy Spyglass that much, but it did suffer as I played it immediately after Cypress Point and I think it was on a hiding to nothing!

I really enjoyed Spanish Bay.
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Ash Towe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2007, 07:18:25 PM »
I have not played Spanish Bay but on my one round at Spyglass I really enjoyed it.  It is a championship test and perhaps does not get the credit it deserves because after the first five holes there are no views of the sea.
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Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2007, 07:23:44 PM »
Byron,

Listen to Adam.

No matter the attractiveness of the Spanish Bay environs if you want to play a golf course, choose Spyglass.

Bob
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Bob Jenkins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 07:26:29 PM »
Bryon,

I totally agree with Adam. Spanish Bay is not in the same league as Spyglass. There has been a lot of talk about Spyglass on this site and it would be the easy choice of those who post on this site. The routing, the outstanding bunkering, variety of shots required (except for the drop shot par 3's) and unique greens make this one of my favourites. For some reason, Spanish Bay does not inspire.

The other must in the general area is Pasatiempo, no doubt.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 07:34:07 PM »
I should have included Pajaro Valley and that other one in Watsonville whose name escapes me now.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2007, 07:56:36 PM »
I would vote for Spyglass. And make sure you check your ego at the door and play the right tee, because it plays really tough.


Of course, I would also expand the area and include Pasatiempo. And I'll also concur with Adam, PG is worth every penny and I would try to squeeze it in (at least the back nine, they do let you play that early morning) if you can.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Tiger_Bernhardt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2007, 08:23:00 PM »
Spyglass period
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BVince

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2007, 08:39:16 PM »
Adam and others,

I am setting up a dream father/son trip and looking at some public courses for some of the rounds.  I hesitate to say what private courses we are playing out of respect to our member hosts.  We are spending a week in the LA to SF area of California and the public courses we are already planning to play are Pasatiempo and Harding Park.  Basically that leaves 1 to 2 rounds "open" to choose.  I was thinking about Rustic Canyon but wanted to hear what you gentlemen suggest.

BV
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If profanity had an influence on the flight of the ball, the game of golf would be played far better than it is. - Horace Hutchinson

cary lichtenstein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2007, 08:44:46 PM »
Spyglass and it's tough. I played it dozens of times and never broke 80. :'(
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Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

BVince

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2007, 09:15:57 PM »
I am not necessarily loooking for the "hardest" course as much as a memorable experience.  My father is a life long golfer and very passionate about the sport bust hasn't played many top courses.  I am trying to treat him to a quality experience.
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If profanity had an influence on the flight of the ball, the game of golf would be played far better than it is. - Horace Hutchinson

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2007, 09:41:55 PM »
Quote from: Bryon Vincent on October 14, 2007, 08:39:16 PM
  I was thinking about Rustic Canyon but wanted to hear what you gentlemen suggest.

BV


Great choice Byron! If you want, you could team that up with Soule Park in Ojai, which is only about 40 mins away and a redo by Hanse. Sandpiper, La Purisima would be solid public choices as well.
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"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2007, 09:44:52 PM »
Spyglass by a mile. Spanish Bay is target golf in a nice setting.
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Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2007, 09:59:48 PM »
Rustic is a great choice if the driving logistics work out. Same with LaPurissima.

Bryon, The short description of your Father, hints to me that he would be very happy at Pacific Grove. Very playable and an unforgettable backnine. Also,
You might want to consider Spanish Bay, especially if you play in the afternoon. Coming home there is remarkable with the bagpippers and sun setting. Spyglass' can be a brute and the greens can make for a long day if his putting isn't up to snuff.
 
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

mike_beene

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2007, 12:28:22 AM »
I agree Spyglass is a better test,but the last 13 holes are a long,often uphill slog through the trees.Spanish Bay is a setting he will always remember.
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BVince

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2007, 08:54:08 AM »
I see that Pacific Grove was mentioned...do you guys think that PG is worth putting into the mix or would it be a let down since we are playing such acclaimed courses?
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If profanity had an influence on the flight of the ball, the game of golf would be played far better than it is. - Horace Hutchinson

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2007, 09:04:03 AM »
Bryon, FWIW, The Caddy corp for St. Andrews felt PG was more enjoyable than the Company courses. Reason being they lost miserably in competition on the Co. courses, and, PG doesn't require any long carries.
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"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2007, 09:13:32 AM »
Between Spyglass and Spanish Bay, I'd choose Spyglass, for reasons stated.  Spanish Bay is better than I had heard, and might offer a more enjoyable experience score-wise, but Spyglass is more interesting.

My top 5 in MRY:  Cypress, Pebble (and we are talking 52%-48% here between the two), MPCC Shore, Spyglass, then Spanish Bay just ahead of Pacific Grove.

And, I wouldn't play the "PG isn't up to the acclaimed course schedule,"  as I played it in May after rounds at Olympic and MPCC-Shore, and right before Cypress.  It's fun, and quirky, and won't (in theory) beat you up.

As for the others in the area: Old Del Monte is ok, with a decent set of small greens.  Nothing too exciting though.  Poppy Hills is an occasionally-good RTJ course that is only worth the price if you are playing the NCGA member rate of $80.  The guest fee of $200+ is brutal.
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So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Tom Huckaby

Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2007, 11:25:08 AM »
Add me to the chorus preferring Spyglass to Spanish Bay, for all the same reasons stated.

Now as for where else to play, well.... LA to SF encompasses a rather HUGE area.  How much do you want to be driving any given day, Byron?  If you can manage a lot of miles, then yes, Rustic Canyon would be a great choice, as would La Purisima (about 2-3 hours north of LA)... continuing north, I hear good things about Monarch Dunes (we have a participant here who's a regular there, perhaps he will chime in)... and then you keep going a few more hours until you are in Monterey - and you have all of that covered with Pasatiempo, Spyglass, and the private clubs you'll be doing.  

PG Muni is great fun.  It has a a very quirky parkland front nine, then a few great dunesy holes on the back, a no-frills kind of atmosphere (as least compared to those others), and it does give you a great chance to score well...

I'd say go ahead and add it in.  You seem to have the famous great courses covered.. a lower-key change of pace might be just what the doctor ordered.  The caddies who liked it better are pretty darn wise.

Bayonet/Blackhorse is another in Monterey worth seeing, but check on renovation status.  I'm not sure what the heck they have playable right now.

Half Moon Bay links course (the new one) is good fun and provides some darn fine ocean views, if you haven't OD'd on those already... rather expensive though.

Back to LA, do you have any thoughts of getting down to Palm Desert, or otherwise going east from LA?  That would allow dozens of great courses.... but logistics get weird....

As you can see, it's a huge state and the opportunities re just as huge.

 ;D

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ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2007, 01:04:24 AM »
My vote is for Spyglass of the two. Better than both though is Pasatiempo if you aren't going to be there for at least a few more weeks. Tom Doak's guys were working on the back nine last month.
   Public access would go Pebble, Pasatiempo, Spy, Spanish Bay, PG IMO for your Dad's sake. PG is a great place to warm up on to start the trip, but after you have played some biggies it may disappoint a bit, or consider it for a "rest" day after driving in from somewhere.
   Rustic would be a great SoCal choice. My "home" course (350 miles away).
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"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

Jed Peters

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2007, 01:42:38 AM »
Spyglass definitely. Spanish Bay is a joke. Hate that course.

What else...um, are you a member of a private club? Have your pro call Olympic and play the Lake, and Monterey Peninsula and play the Shore course.

Both are $300 reciprocal rates, but this is a "dream" trip, right?

Play Pebble too. You only have to stay one night in the winter, and if you call the day ahead, you can probably get out without staying there.

On a budget?

1. Pac Grove
2. Del Monte (Don't pay until the other guys they put you with show up and ask if they're Duke's Club members, you'll thank me)
3. Poppy Hills (play with an NCGA member, it's likely that the 2 guys they put you with will be)

Nothing else is cheap/reasonable.

If you're going in the winter, you may want to join Duke's Club yourself, if you play Del Monte, Spy, and Spanish, the membership will pay for itself because you both get the rate.

Play Pasatiempo too. it's a must.

Oh, and the new Bayonet 9...over and over and over. What a great track....can't wait until they do the whole thing.
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Patrick Kiser

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #22 on: October 16, 2007, 02:58:42 AM »
Of course the glass, but don't pass up PG.

Even foie gras everyday gets old.

Give yourself a wonderful breather with PG and then make your way to Peppers for some decent grub.
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“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Ray Richard

Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2007, 09:33:49 AM »
On question #1, Spyglass by far is more enjoyable, take it for what it's worth-a classic RTJsr layout with landing strip tees, huge greens and approaches, a quirky hole every once in a while and not a hint of target golf.

Spanish Bay-designed by three people, Watson,Tatum, and RTJjr who apparently weren't communicating well during the process. Its punishing micro-target golf, symetric bunkering, greens that have no theme, some are huge and flat-some are small with crazy contours. I was warned about this course and I should have gone to Pasa that day-at least the deck lounge was nice.
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Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Spyglass or Spanish Bay
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2007, 09:53:11 AM »
One pt. of contention Ray....

I agree the Spanish Bay is target golf, even from the tees to most fairways.

But I wouldn't say Spyglass isn't target golf.  Maybe not quite to the extent as at SB, but you aren't running many shots around Spyglass...

As for holes accepting running approaches, there aren't many...#7 (but only on one side), definately #13 (long par 4).
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So I jump ship in Hong Kong....
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