STRATEGY.....where does it start?

[paul cowley]

Strategy has to start at the goal and last I knew no one ever tried to figure out how many strokes it takes to get to the tee.  Hole lengths and design options maybe narrowed by a given routing, but the contouring and featuring of the green site and the attributes of its subsequent pinable areas will dictate the approach needed to maximize reaching the hole in good form.

Jim.....your post works for par threes but ignores fours and fives.....and this thread is less about how you play a hole strategically, but more about the direction from which one designs them.  

 

[Jim Thompson]

Paul,

I'd say it works least on par 3s and more on the 4s and 5s.  Consider feature location, and green contouring and the placement of shots that set up one's arrival become more strategic.  Please remember that I believe there is a huge difference between tactics and strategies.  Par threes only give the player the teeing area by which to choose strategy where as a four or five par present the entire playing area.  High or low, cut or draw, knock down full etc... are tactics in my mind that react to the perpendicular nature of features where strategies react to those that present more parallel conditions, such as central spines.  I’m probably not doing a good job of describing my thought here, but that’s OK.  After a routing is done, you’re left to make the best hole that fits within that corridor and the green sites impact on the strategic nature of the hole is of exponential import to that of the tee and its contouring effects all of the fairway development and tee sets, as a result the design post routing is dictated by the green site, in my opinion.

Hope that helps.

JT

[paul cowley]

Jim...we are probably saying the same thing, just differently.
I have the same problem with my fiancee .

[JESII]

Mike,

I am going to assume that you are asking how designers create strategy for the people that are going to play the hole/course[/i]...is that acceptable? For those people that have suggested that strategy, in the players mind,[/i] can be dictated by the tee shot...how so?

Then again, maybe you were asking the designers how they design the hole/course and not asking anything about how the course is played...

[Mike_Young]

Mike,

I am going to assume that you are asking how designers create strategy for the people that are going to play the hole/course[/i]...is that acceptable? For those people that have suggested that strategy, in the players mind,[/i] can be dictated by the tee shot...how so?

Then again, maybe you were asking the designers how they design the hole/course and not asking anything about how the course is played...

Jim,
I think I have begun to confuse myself with this thought but let me take a stab.....would you agree that the tee shot can do no more than determine the strategy for the approach shot (if it is a par 4).....if the strategy at the green allows one to have the same type of shot from anywhere in the fairway then how critical was strategy on the tee?  But if the green allowed moderate to extreme favoritism to a shot from the proper area in the fairway then I would say the strategy of the tee shot was critical but based on the green complex moreso than the tee.....Hell I don't know.....i'm confused

[JESII]

If you're confused so am I because it makes perfect sense to me...do me a favor, and let me know (when you figure it out) if we are so I can plan out the rest of my day...

[Mike_Young]

If you're confused so am I because it makes perfect sense to me...do me a favor, and let me know (when you figure it out) if we are so I can plan out the rest of my day...

I will let you know....
 

[BCrosby]

Mike -

You make perfect sense to me too.

So what's going on? Typos? Lack of sleep?

Bob

[Rich Goodale]

Hey, I agree too.  This is getting scary....

[Mike_Cirba]

I think this is a fantastic thread.

I'd start by questioning the whole idea of a "landing zone", which leads to the sort of problem Mike Y. pointed out with the woman player.  

It also leads to the fallacy of multiple tees.  If I hear one more time that "it's a great course, provided you select the proper set of tees" I'm going to puke.  

This discussion is off to a great start, but I think we need to elasticize our imaginations because while nature abhors a vacuum, genius and artistry abhor dogma.

   

[JESII]

What did that guy just say?

[Mike_Young]

What did that guy just say?

I confused and can't take it anymore.....hmmmmmm....I need a mustard biscuit......

[Mike_Cirba]

Jim,

Next time we drink red wine together, you'll understand.  

Mike,

Got any moe of that potted meat?

[JESII]

I thought he ate fried taters...er sumpin like dat...

[Mike_Cirba]

I thought he ate fried taters...er sumpin like dat...

I like the way you talk.

[Mike_Young]

Jim,

Next time we drink red wine together, you'll understand.  

Mike,

Got any moe of that potted meat?

hmm...nope " you really think it gots peckers in there"

[Garland Bayley]

I don't understand why people think JN designs from the tee to green, when he has so often can clearly stated that he plays by determining strategy from green to tee. I would think that is so deeply ingrained in him that it doesn't show much in what he says, because he would immediately begin talking about what the requirements for the player on the tee.