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Jerry Lemons

  • Karma: +0/-0
New course design by ODG....
« on: October 18, 2007, 09:50:25 AM »
Jeff's thread of what if we built TOC, how would it do?
I have played Black Creek, so cleverly design by B.Silva and S. Radnor. (oh BTW  Seth  WAS dead when it was designed)... So if I go out and build a course today that is totally in the Ross style... or copies Ross’s holes….

1. Would it be well accepted?
2. Should I credit Ross as a Collaborator and promote this?
Oh I know I do lack creativity in this endeavor (thread)

Jerry  
« Last Edit: October 18, 2007, 09:51:09 AM by Jerry Lemons »
Times flys and your the pilot !

Mark Bourgeois

Re:New course design by ODG....
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2007, 10:21:30 AM »
Hello Jerry,

Which "Ross style" did you have in mind?

Also, what do you think of this effort?

Cheers
Mark

Jerry Lemons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New course design by ODG....
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2007, 10:25:35 AM »
Mark,  Lets pick a style of green complexes like PH and flat bunkers. Strategy from favorites- In essense grab the "style" Ross might use on a sight.

I ask the question of what YOU think if this effort.I will give my Opion after a few more post.
Times flys and your the pilot !

Phil_the_Author

Re:New course design by ODG....
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2007, 10:30:54 AM »
Jerry,

Although I am not at liberty to say where, I am aware of a club that is strongly considering building a course that was designed by Tilly but never built, and on the site where it was proposed building it.

If done, it will be done according to his drawings (they have them) and 12 of the 18 holes will be exactly as he routted and laid them out. Unfortunately the other 6 can not be built as that portion of the property is being used.

The credits will list Tilly as the designer.

It is an extremely exciting project that is getting quite close to being agreed to.

Jerry Lemons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New course design by ODG....
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2007, 10:36:02 AM »
I think this is totally different than the question I posed. The one you speak of WAS designed by Tilly with Plans.

What if I go to 18 Ross Courses and replicate in style, strategy(which we know that no one other than us in this treehouse care about) green contours, collection areas etc... those on my new course and call it XYZ CC design by Donald Ross?
Would you give it any attention?
Times flys and your the pilot !

Brent Hutto

Re:New course design by ODG....
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2007, 10:38:00 AM »
I've posted this opinion before but it does happen to be exactly my answer to this question.

I happen to love courses along the lines of Athens (GA), Camden (SC), Granville (OH) and Holston Hills (TN) that built as small-town country club style courses fairly typical of their place and time. Give me a day on any of those and I'll not think for a moment that I'd rather be playing somewhere else. My own club is a early-60's Ellis Maples design with some of that same design DNA.

Most of the courses I named were routed over their rolling terrain either in person or on a topographic chart by Donald Ross. In the case of Camden he actually consulted on a rework of an older course and Granville has been much changed in the ensuing decades. AFAIK, he did not supervise the construction of greens or bunkers at any of these courses although he did provide detail drawings of the shapes and slopes that he had in mind.

All I know for sure is that I like an awful lot of courses built to those requirements in that era that survived in whole or in part for the ensuing 75 years. Would those courses be just as suited to my taste if Donald Ross had had nothing to do with them? It seems doubtful but there's really no way to know. I am pretty sure that if we brought him in a time machine and had him build a course for Bobby Ginn somewhere in Florida next year the result wouldn't look a whole lot like Holston Hills.

My point being this, I guess. If you wanted to build a course on a nice piece of property to the same requirements as Donald Ross was subject to when he built some particular example that you like, I'm guessing any competent architect today could pull that off. But similar property isn't necessarily available and modern maintenance expectations would pressure him to make some accomodations and many people nowadays don't want to play on what they would view as a congested, too-intimate routing with tee boxes just steps from the incoming balls on the previous green. So be careful what you wish for.

Phil_the_Author

Re:New course design by ODG....
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2007, 10:39:23 AM »
Jerry, I understand the difference, but this is such a unique opportunity and situation and I believe, when announced, will cause great excitement for anyone interested in golf and course design.

Jerry Lemons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:New course design by ODG....
« Reply #7 on: October 18, 2007, 10:42:56 AM »
Jerry, I understand the difference, but this is such a unique opportunity and situation and I believe, when announced, will cause great excitement for anyone interested in golf and course design.

I hope you will let us know when it happens.
Times flys and your the pilot !

Mark Bourgeois

Re:New course design by ODG....
« Reply #8 on: October 18, 2007, 11:11:24 AM »
Fair enough, Jerry.

You build 18 #2-"style" green complexes (and that BTW doesn't mean 18 domed greens) and I'll beat a path to your course's door.

You could take full credit, give no nod to Ross, paint sponsor logos right into the green surfaces, and charge a "personal seat license" (cart fee?) in addition to green fees...if you managed to build 18 #2-"style" green complexes I would beat a path to your door.

No idea how "normal" golfers would receive it...

Good luck,
Mark

PS I think "originally" (c. 1930s) #2's bunkers were not flat-bottomed but instead were flashed up.

PPS Brent, my understanding is that many golfers preferred PH #1 to #2 for the first several decades of those courses's existence.  Didn't like how #2 beat the daylights out of them...

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